Patch 3.3.3 - PTR Build 11599

[Mif]

I thought u engineers can grind so much gold from these (ex. mechano hog mats cost around 10k(?) and u sell it for 14k)
anyway, i still hope that they'll make it BoE no matter how much it'll cost (I want ONE for each of my toon mommy!!!)

Vendor mats are 12.5k, the titansteels etc bring it up to around 14k

Also, the schematic for the chopper costs 320g, which due to the stingy way people tip and the fact the most people are sending themselves broke by buying the bike, I've yet to recover in 5 crafts.

[Typhron]

and you dont deserve any gems or enchants.

See what i did there? Quit being stingy.

Anyways from the 5 or so pages i read, i cant believe nobody had brought up the natures grasp change for resto druids. They are already hard as hell to catch up to, and now they get 3 instant entangling roots? I know this was mainly for boomkins... but resto is going to be insanely overpowered because of this. I wonder how they will counter this buff for resto.

You can make money with your profession. We cannot.

/discussion

I won't even get into the fact that there are so many Engineers around that the chances of making money of your own wares a pipe dream at best.

Addendum:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

+1

[Mr. Smith]

pff stil no paladin changes :'(

Paladins
-Hammer of the Righteous now causes Forbearance
-Avenger's Shield now causes Forbearance
-Shield of Righteousness now causes Forbearance
-Hand of Sacrifice now causes Forbearance

[Sulika]

Cooldowns aren't only used for high tank damage phases. They can be used for when raid damage increases and relieving work on the healers helps. Lets use festergut as an example. Say a paladin is tanking first. He could divine protection at 2 inhales and make life easier. By the time his turn comes up to tank a 3 inhale he will have it back. As for raid warning you seem to ignore the fact things happen in real time. When I am deciding to use a cooldown to save myself a healer is also deciding to use a cooldown to save me. We will both use these cooldowns at relatively the same time and that's it, the damage is done and they are both gone. As for why shield block isn't metioned you covered it yourself. For any situation where you need to use a cooldown shield block is not an acceptable cooldown.

Every two minutes a paladin can use talented divine protection.
Every two minutes a warrior can use talented + glyphed shield wall, and glyphed last stand, and shield block twice.

I fail to see how the paladin has any advantage here.

On the other hand, in a situation where you only use your cooldowns once, like for example, if you were doing the intelligent thing and letting your healers heal you through two stacks and not glyphing and talenting your shield wall and last stand then we have the other situation. You both get healed fine through two stacks but when it comes your turn to tank three stacks the paladin has 50% damage reduced for 12 of the 30 seconds and is relying on ardent defender to carry him through the other 18 while the warrior has 60% damage reduced for 12 seconds, 30% increased health for the remaining 20 seconds and a further ~20% damage reduced for 10 of those seconds from shield block being up at the same time.

If a warrior wants to turn his cooldowns into lesser cooldowns he can spam more often he has that choice. If the paladin on the other hand would like to turn his spammy cooldown into a better cooldown he could use less often then he can't do that. The warrior has flexibility. The paladin doesn't.

And where do you get me saying shield block isn't a suitable cooldown? The fights in ICC all have blockable damage spikes. Even against attacks that can't be blocked (Gormak for example) shield block provides fantastic mitigation against any other hits that come at the same time. Don't put words in my mouth please.

[Deliverme314]

Seriously, this Nature's Grasp buff is total BS. As if druids wernt already amazing kiters in arenas. This is beyond frustrating for a melee'er

[Ibbi]

Wow, the first multi-passenger flying mount. Only took forever.

[eRAZOR]

If they're used to identify "bad" players: Why do they say hidden? Or will the random dungeon finder put all the bad players together?

That would be hillarious. All Star Loser Groups

[FoF]

Every two minutes a paladin can use talented divine protection.
Every two minutes a warrior can use talented + glyphed shield wall, and glyphed last stand, and shield block twice.

I fail to see how the paladin has any advantage here.

On the other hand, in a situation where you only use your cooldowns once, like for example, if you were doing the intelligent thing and letting your healers heal you through two stacks and not glyphing and talenting your shield wall and last stand then we have the other situation. You both get healed fine through two stacks but when it comes your turn to tank three stacks the paladin has 50% damage reduced for 12 of the 30 seconds and is relying on ardent defender to carry him through the other 18 while the warrior has 60% damage reduced for 12 seconds, 30% increased health for the remaining 20 seconds and a further ~20% damage reduced for 10 of those seconds from shield block being up at the same time.

If a warrior wants to turn his cooldowns into lesser cooldowns he can spam more often he has that choice. If the paladin on the other hand would like to turn his spammy cooldown into a better cooldown he could use less often then he can't do that. The warrior has flexibility. The paladin doesn't.

And where do you get me saying shield block isn't a suitable cooldown? The fights in ICC all have blockable damage spikes. Even against attacks that can't be blocked (Gormak for example) shield block provides fantastic mitigation against any other hits that come at the same time. Don't put words in my mouth please.

I am saying big damage hits are not something you use shield block on because its either unblockable or it magic. You say he is relying on ardent defender like its a bad thing. Now he gets through the 3rd inhale without it procing and someone slips up healing after because its back to raid healing, shit, ardent defender procs and he doesnt die and your other tanks do. The fact is 2 talent points is a huge cost to reduce the cooldown by a minute to get it to a level where you can use it more than once. Glyphing it without a doubt makes it a worse ability but again is one of the only ways to bring it down to a level where you can use the ability more than once. I know algalon isn't current tier but he was a good example of this. He did a big hit every 1.5 minutes which means each tank had to deal with it twice. A paladin can deal with both by himself. A warrior can deal with 1 by himself if he isn't glyphed or none if he is.

[Sulika]

Seriously, this Nature's Grasp buff is total BS. As if druids wernt already amazing kiters in arenas. This is beyond frustrating for a melee'er

I could see it being a nice change if they made it 1 charge in 2v2, 2 charges in 3v3 and 3 charges in 5v5 or bgs. Or just make it snare the person who triggered it and anyone within 5 or 10 yards of them. The really funny thing is though, whatever they do with it will still be made an absolute joke of by blessing of freedom. Why would anyone care how often it gets applied when you are snare immune.

As written though it is a huge buff in 2v2 where druids are already quite strong, and not as much as a buff in 3v3 and 5v5 where druids are a lot weaker.

In fact, the real change they should make is to limit the total number of snares blessing of freedom can prevent. That is a change that wouldn't hit paladins all that hard in 2v2 where they are reasonably represented but would pull them back a notch in 3v3 and 5v5 where they are very much overrepresented.

If they made Blessing of Freedom remove or prevent at most 3 snares that would be a much more interesting change.

[Triston]

Anyone else notice that the Glyph of Chains of Ice "change" isn't a change at all? It's listed exactly as it is on live.

[Sulika]

I am saying big damage hits are not something you use shield block on because its either unblockable or it magic. You say he is relying on ardent defender like its a bad thing. Now he gets through the 3rd inhale without it procing and someone slips up healing after because its back to raid healing, shit, ardent defender procs and he doesnt die and your other tanks do. The fact is 2 talent points is a huge cost to reduce the cooldown by a minute to get it to a level where you can use it more than once. Glyphing it without a doubt makes it a worse ability but again is one of the only ways to bring it down to a level where you can use the ability more than once. I know algalon isn't current tier but he was a good example of this. He did a big hit every 1.5 minutes which means each tank had to deal with it twice. A paladin can deal with both by himself. A warrior can deal with 1 by himself if he isn't glyphed or none if he is.

What big hits in ICC are unblockable? Lady Deathwhispers frostbolt is the only one I can think of offhand, but then a warrior can interrupt that ...

And lets be honest here, at 3 stacks Festergut is hitting for 35k+. That means Ardent Defender is going to proc on the very first hit unless the paladin has 54k health. From that point on if he takes 2 hits in a row the paladin will die. Most people drastically overestimate how good Ardent Defender is. I went through my own guilds Festergut logs from the tries when we used a paladin tank. Ardent Defender procced once in all the logs I could find and he died from the next hit one second later.

When AD procs it heals by up to 30% of the paladins health. The heal our pala got was 8.5k out of a health pool of, presumably 50k+ raid buffed at the time. Compared to 20 seconds of 15k+ extra health that a warrior would have in the same situation it doesn't even come close. It is easy to concoct imaginary scenarios where AD saves the day but the reality is that for the most part, it doesn't.

[LordArcsinh]

Anyone else notice that the Glyph of Chains of Ice "change" isn't a change at all? It's listed exactly as it is on live.

It was originally changed to "Your Chains of Ice also applies Frost Fever."

They then made this functionality baseline, and reverted the change back to its current live functionality.

tl,dr: it's a "change" from the last PTR build, hence why it's a "change".

[Triston]

It was originally changed to "Your Chains of Ice also applies Frost Fever."

They then made this functionality baseline, and reverted the change back to its current live functionality.

tl,dr: it's a "change" from the last PTR build, hence why it's a "change".

Thank you. That was confusing me.

[NegativeZero]

Paladins
-Hammer of the Righteous now causes Forbearance
-Avenger's Shield now causes Forbearance
-Shield of Righteousness now causes Forbearance
-Hand of Sacrifice now causes Forbearance

uh..u forgot to add....
-Auto attack now causes Forbearance
-Heck even considering to roll a pally now causes Forbearance

[Xenryusho]

Last stand called. It wanted to remind you that shield wall isn't the only cooldown you have.

Argent defender, and the option to either LoH (in the rare rare case that there's no healer available and you're -definitely- going to die with the next hit), or to remove all debuffs with a cancel aura macro.. Oh don't forget you can divine sacrafice and cancel aura macro to make it cancel the sacrafice part and get a two minute 20% shield wall.. Also Argent Defender Scales.

Now please make a list of fights that require you to use shield wall more than once. Oh wait, there aren't any ...

You're confused me thinks..

Nearly all are also physical damage, shield block is a fantastic cooldown against physical damage.

Actually being able to block with a modest chance and effect for most of the fight rather then 10 seconds every minute is even better.

Easy, because shield block would trivialise those encounters if they specials could be blocked.

And the fact that paladins could hit the point where they push normal hits off the table has nothing to do with it... /sarcasm

60-70% reduced damage

10k to a tank starting out... 60% is 6k.. Shield block doubles their BV..It will take 3k block value before shield block to mitigate that much.. If a warrior tank is running that much BV when starting ICC in progression then they're probably gearing for it.. And therefore bad.. + 3k SBV is past the SS DR point which just makes it pointless to stack altogether..
But pulling math out of your ass is fun..

At 2500 block shield block would be 80% mitigation against marrowgar.

Ummm.. 5k blocked off every hit..Is 50%...Not 80%... Which doesn't account for the single tick of cold flames tanks will take every time marrowgar spawns it under them so.. It's less then 50% altogether.. Oh and dodging / parrying more during that 10 seconds (during a 10 second time frame the chance that you dodge / parry / get missed can be 100%, in a 20 minute combat sample it's more likely to get normalized to your % chance to avoid but in short time frames it's more likely that 5-10 melee hits will be dodged then 100 melee hits will all be dodged..).. So in reality your number is miserably off.. Not to mention the paladins semi-static 30% increased chance to block which will may be up through the entire fight...

It's easy, you just make a macro

If a priest waits to see this macro then they're bad. They should hit it as soon as I need it..Which is the moment I should hit it as well.. So if we should both be hitting it at the same time.. How will the macro help? But yes I commonly do run this macro anyway, despite the fact that it doesn't become better then defender by any lengths.

Every two minutes a paladin can use talented divine protection, Divine sac but cancel aura the sacrafice part, have argent defender go off when they need it (because why would a warrior use last stand if they didn't need it) and Holy Shield 7 times.
Every two minutes a warrior can use talented + glyphed shield wall, and glyphed last stand, and shield block twice.

I fixed that for you.. Also yes talents > talents and 2/3 glyph spots..

[Toriankel]

Ho my ... combustion buff ! gogo fellow mages, whe are going to out dps arcane with this ....

*SIGH*

[Chin Music]

The way the holiday thing is worded, it sounds like each player gets a personal holiday "cache" once per day off the boss which I guess avoids having to roll on whatever drops.

[Julex]

lolno. Still doesn't address the lack of burst.

You sir made my day. Lol'd so hard.

OT: I'm interested in the 2 man rocket mount!

[DiamondTear]

What big hits in ICC are unblockable? Lady Deathwhispers frostbolt is the only one I can think of offhand, but then a warrior can interrupt that ...

And lets be honest here, at 3 stacks Festergut is hitting for 35k+. That means Ardent Defender is going to proc on the very first hit unless the paladin has 54k health. From that point on if he takes 2 hits in a row the paladin will die. Most people drastically overestimate how good Ardent Defender is. I went through my own guilds Festergut logs from the tries when we used a paladin tank. Ardent Defender procced once in all the logs I could find and he died from the next hit one second later.

When AD procs it heals by up to 30% of the paladins health. The heal our pala got was 8.5k out of a health pool of, presumably 50k+ raid buffed at the time. Compared to 20 seconds of 15k+ extra health that a warrior would have in the same situation it doesn't even come close. It is easy to concoct imaginary scenarios where AD saves the day but the reality is that for the most part, it doesn't.

AD doesn't work like you think it does. It has two parts.

[thegreatheed]

Argent defender, and the option to either LoH (in the rare rare case that there's no healer available and you're -definitely- going to die with the next hit), or to remove all debuffs with a cancel aura macro.. Oh don't forget you can divine sacrafice and cancel aura macro to make it cancel the sacrafice part and get a two minute 20% shield wall.. Also Argent Defender Scales.

LoH is not a tank cooldown. In fact, if it's used on yourself, it NEGATES our tanking cooldown by giving you forearance. So, you'd have to use it when you already don't have forbearance, an don't plan on taking more dangerous dmg afterwards.... which is never in any realistic raid situation. Good try, but fail.

Actually being able to block with a modest chance and effect for most of the fight rather then 10 seconds every minute is even better.

And the fact that paladins could hit the point where they push normal hits off the table has nothing to do with it... /sarcasm

10k to a tank starting out... 60% is 6k.. Shield block doubles their BV..It will take 3k block value before shield block to mitigate that much.. If a warrior tank is running that much BV when starting ICC in progression then they're probably gearing for it.. And therefore bad.. + 3k SBV is past the SS DR point which just makes it pointless to stack altogether..
But pulling math out of your ass is fun..

Ummm.. 5k blocked off every hit..Is 50%...Not 80%... Which doesn't account for the single tick of cold flames tanks will take every time marrowgar spawns it under them so.. It's less then 50% altogether.. Oh and dodging / parrying more during that 10 seconds (during a 10 second time frame the chance that you dodge / parry / get missed can be 100%, in a 20 minute combat sample it's more likely to get normalized to your % chance to avoid but in short time frames it's more likely that 5-10 melee hits will be dodged then 100 melee hits will all be dodged..).. So in reality your number is miserably off.. Not to mention the paladins semi-static 30% increased chance to block which will may be up through the entire fight...

You really have no clue how good shield block is, do you?

Quick quiz. If a warrior and a paladin, both wearing a measly 2000 bv (mostly gained from strength on good tanking gear) tank a boss for 10 minutes with the paladin using holy shield on cooldown, and the warrior using shield block on cooldown, WHO BLOCKS THE MOST DMG?

"pulling math out of your ass" is something you like to do as well, eh? Since you haven't done your research, I'll just answer this question for you. The warriors mitigates more damage through blocks. That's right, even though warriors don't block every attack, the combined synergy of shield block + critical block are BETTER than holy shield.

Not the mention that in ICC, paladins don't block every attack anymore.

Seriously, stop pulling math out of your ass.