(tank) Buff Warriors and DKS but Nerf Pallies ?!?!?

[Tikaru]

so at patch 3.3 they nerfed Pally tank health by 4% which at the time it was said that it was to put us more in line with the other tanks' HP and I was kind of fine with the nerf for that reason...

they even gave 2% HP to DKs who kind of needed it....

but now... they're giving 3% to Warriors next patch... if they're getting buffed in HP then WHY THE F*K were we nerfed in the first place if they're just gonna raise the others up more.



and here's the patch note i'm refering to:

Warrior (Forums / Talent Calculator)
Protection

• Vitality: Now boosts Stamina by 3/6/9%, up from 2/4/6%. Strength and expertise benefits have not changed.

Let the Warriors have it, they need the love.

[Evilution]

This math is wrong. The damage reduction from AD only affects the portion of the hit that deals damage below 35%. It will not reduce the entirety of, say, a 30k hit by 20%.

Seems like you´re just misreading it, the poster included the 30% heal from AD when we die the first time.
His calculation just takes into consideration how much damage we can take before going splat with no
heals, it´s not mentioning how much the damage is reduced (by block/absorb/damage mitigation talents
and glyphs) before eating our sweet HP-bar.

[ProphetNoata]

Let the Warriors have it, they need the love.

yeah but its unfair to nerf pallies to put them on down to everyone elses lvl then to buff the others to put them above pallies

[Leidus]

Seems like you´re just misreading it, the poster included the 30% heal from AD when we die the first time.
His calculation just takes into consideration how much damage we can take before going splat with no
heals, it´s not mentioning how much the damage is reduced (by block/absorb/damage mitigation talents
and glyphs) before eating our sweet HP-bar.

Hmm. To be honest, I really don't think the cheat death feature of Ardent Defender is more than a gimmick. I can't really think of any progression kills, aside from heroic NRB, where AD procced and I didn't die anyway. Most times it procs in a raid, I get smashed in the face again and die anyway. The reason it had to proc is because something bad was happening, and the fact that it did proc didn't make the bad thing stop happening. I'd rather not be balanced around it, considering it's biggest uses are to cover for ninja-afk healers in random 5 mans and to allow healers to be lazier on farm kills.

[Lumidar]

yeah but its unfair to nerf pallies to put them on down to everyone elses lvl then to buff the others to put them above pallies

that was my point... not the fact we got nerfed. i don't care that we got nerfed cus i agreed it was to be put on par with others.

but then buffing warriors to make them higher than pallies again? that is what i don't understand.

[Banan]

Palas still owe every tank cuz of Ardent Defender :>

[Deathflid]

ardent defender, not the proc, the damage reduc, not only does it make pallies easier to heal, it makes them have larger effective health pools.

[WitchMoon]

I really wonder why the other tanks complain about the OPness of the pally...

Ardent Defender is awesome right, but face it, if u go down to 35% health something goes wrong! In times like this where healers can spam large heals without even getting manaproblems how in the hell would it be possible to let the tank drop this low? And even worse - if u cheat death with the freaking proc ur healers simply didnt make it... so is it fun to rely on these talents?
If the talent hadnt been chanced to give the cheat-death I didnt even consider putting three pints in there. Now its a nice-to-have, not more.
I would rather like getting another spellinterrupt than being "immortal" but noone ever talks about that kinda things.

Oh we talk about the HP-buff/nerf, well its like its posted above, the tank himself doesnt really care about the healthpool, the raid/leaders do. For me I am keeping my stats balanced like being hitcapped, expertise-softcapped and have improved hammer in my talenttree for even lowering the CD of the spellinterrupt - I am abput 5k HP behind Warris with my gearscore - ah yes Libram with stats, giev!

[luthe]

so at patch 3.3 they nerfed Pally tank health by 4% which at the time it was said that it was to put us more in line with the other tanks' HP and I was kind of fine with the nerf for that reason...

they even gave 2% HP to DKs who kind of needed it....

but now... they're giving 3% to Warriors next patch... if they're getting buffed in HP then WHY THE F*K were we nerfed in the first place if they're just gonna raise the others up more.



and here's the patch note i'm refering to:

Warrior (Forums / Talent Calculator)
Protection

• Vitality: Now boosts Stamina by 3/6/9%, up from 2/4/6%. Strength and expertise benefits have not changed.

even post nerf paladins still had better stam scaling then warriors did, this is bringing it closer to in line, warriors dks and paladins are all within ~2% stam scaling of each other now which is far better then dks at 8% warriors at 6% and paladins at 14%.

class balance happens, it's the same reason that feral talent got nerfed, cause their health was retardedly high.

[Copain]

that was my point... not the fact we got nerfed. i don't care that we got nerfed cus i agreed it was to be put on par with others.

but then buffing warriors to make them higher than pallies again? that is what i don't understand.

I fail to see how reducing one stat on one talent that takes up only a few talent points, nerf's Pally tanks to below Warriors.

[ProphetNoata]

i think he just meant healthwise

WOOT HERO MEMBER!

[grevari]

it all comes down to this. Paladins are worried that warriors are going to go back on top of the tanking list and take their jobs as MT for the high level raids.

This is dumb. Unless you suck at tanking and only got that spot because your a pally tank, then this will not effect your status in the raid. Even if you suck you still have better AOE threat. Better DMG mitt. do I really need to go on?

Stop your complaining, man up and show the RL that your spot is your by being a good tank. It shouldn't matter if there is a possibility that there is a better tank. Show them that you are the best at what you do and they will NOT trade you out. END OF STORY. qq is done. Man up.

[Doomwise]

that was my point... not the fact we got nerfed. i don't care that we got nerfed cus i agreed it was to be put on par with others.

but then buffing warriors to make them higher than pallies again? that is what i don't understand.

Warriors get slighty higher hp than palladins.
Palladins have AD, higher block, higher threat and (I know it's less important) higher tank dps.

Tell you what, I'll give up extra hp if you give up those four, that sounds fair to me.

[HavokHeart]

Pallies can heal if they respec? Welcome to an extra Hybrid tax?

Also: Pallies are easy.

[CrazyEyez315]

Warriors, lack of self heals
DK's, technically steal health
Paladin's, self heals at will
Bear, they also have self heals, but they take so little dmg that they barely need to bother.

[conqq]

so at patch 3.3 they nerfed Pally tank health by 4% which at the time it was said that it was to put us more in line with the other tanks' HP and I was kind of fine with the nerf for that reason...

they even gave 2% HP to DKs who kind of needed it....

but now... they're giving 3% to Warriors next patch... if they're getting buffed in HP then WHY THE F*K were we nerfed in the first place if they're just gonna raise the others up more.



and here's the patch note i'm refering to:

Warrior (Forums / Talent Calculator)
Protection

• Vitality: Now boosts Stamina by 3/6/9%, up from 2/4/6%. Strength and expertise benefits have not changed.

I agree completely, I have no clue why they're buffing warriors

Warriors get slighty higher hp than palladins.
Palladins have AD, higher block, higher threat and (I know it's less important) higher tank dps.

Tell you what, I'll give up extra hp if you give up those four, that sounds fair to me.

Block is a joke... plus warriors have critical blocks

[Lumidar]

Warriors, lack of self heals
DK's, technically steal health
Paladin's, self heals at will
Bear, they also have self heals, but they take so little dmg that they barely need to bother.

Don't even start me on this...

DKs steal health?? from what skill? all the healing type skills are in the Blood tree which is mainly a DPS tree, most tanks since the patch are Frost since it's so much better for tanking now.

Paladins Self heal at will? the only heal we have is Judgement of Light which im pretty sure every other class in the raid gets the same benefit.

Yes Druids have a Feral regen but they also lack alot of things like Block and Parry or tanking cooldowns which is also why they have the higher health pools to compensate.

Warrior's lack of self heal??
[Enraged Regeneration]


now stfu

[Zeleii]

Hmm. To be honest, I really don't think the cheat death feature of Ardent Defender is more than a gimmick. I can't really think of any progression kills, aside from heroic NRB, where AD procced and I didn't die anyway. Most times it procs in a raid, I get smashed in the face again and die anyway. The reason it had to proc is because something bad was happening, and the fact that it did proc didn't make the bad thing stop happening. I'd rather not be balanced around it, considering it's biggest uses are to cover for ninja-afk healers in random 5 mans and to allow healers to be lazier on farm kills.

I'll expand on this point, to be entirely fair... this point is pretty much valid. If Ardent Defender procs on me it's usually a wipe, the class being built around Ardent Defender is stupid, and even WITHOUT AD Paladins still pull ahead of other tanks. TBH I'd trade my Ardent defender for an on use Last Stand.

[jifjosh]

Yes Druids have a Feral regen but they also lack alot of things like Block and Parry or tanking cooldowns which is also why they have the higher health pools to compensate.

Doesn't Savage Defense count as Feral Block? (reduce damage based on your attackpwr?)

[Lumidar]

Doesn't Savage Defense count as Feral Block? (reduce damage based on your attackpwr?)

counts more like armor than block cus it's constant. as for block is only a chance. the only time block is a constant is if you're block capped which most paladins should be but warriors are not there because of the longer cooldown on shield block.

TL;DR: i consider it an armor buff