So what about Plate now?

[Leetbeartank]

It's all gonna be in the talents... Deep in tanking trees are going to be a shit load of mitigation, avoidance, and the uncrittable talent.

[celinamuna]

But in bgs, why is it fun? Cause I sure take my time to kill anyone, but it takes lots of people to kill me.

And this doesn't seem op to you why ?

[Surfd]

Yes, they should take more physical damage since they are wearing less armor.

OP, here's what may really trip your mind. They have said that because of how they itemize there will be a lot of "tanking" plate that actually has LESS stamina than the dps equivalent.

So we may run into situations where the tanks end up with less HP compared to DPS.

Wacky eh?

Except that Every single tank class will have a mandatory tank related talent that boosts their HP signifigantly when specced for tanking. So no, you will never end up with tanks having less HP then the DPS while in tank stance / spec.

[Palatrino]

And this doesn't seem op to you why ?

You get far higher numbers than I do when you crit (if you're a dps?) Why should my dmg be lower than yours then if you get the same amount of hp?

Parry, Dodge, Block works yes, IF someone is stupid enough to stand in front of me. And you're a rogue/warrior/dk/kitty and you do no bleed effects and white hits "only".

Only reason it's doable atm for me to pvp as tank is that I have the stm and enough of it to maybe kill you. If you get the same amount of hp, no chance in hell I'm killing anyone. Seems fair?

[zcks]

And this doesn't seem op to you why ?

Ill simplify what palat means, he means that with the amount of damage reduction & stamina he has as a tank in pvp he can slowly work you down from 100%-0% with moderate consistent damage & stuns without having to worry about you just wtfbursting him down.

Sure if you can heal or kite effectively you will probably beat tanks that do this but vs melee he should win because of his higher effective health, if that goes away by everyone else getting more health & armor to lessen physical damage he is kinda screwed.

[Palatrino]

Ill simplify what palat means, he means that with the amount of damage reduction & stamina he has as a tank in pvp he can slowly work you down from 100%-0% with moderate consistent damage & stuns without having to worry about you just wtfbursting him down.

Sure if you can heal or kite effectively you will probably beat tanks that do this but vs melee he should win because of his higher effective health, if that goes away by everyone else getting more health & armor to lessen physical damage he is kinda screwed.

Thanks for helping me out at such a late hour here ^^
Yeah, what he said.

[Klarth]

Let's compare

Plate (2641) - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51129
Mail (1477) - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51150
Leather (665) - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51189
Cloth (354) - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51156

Each armor tier has roughly double that of the tier below it. However what this results in is that plate currently has 4 times as much armor as leather, and 8 times as much as cloth. This is the disparity that the developers are talking about. What they want is that plate only have maybe 2-3 times as much armor as cloth. You're still going to be taking a fair bit less physical damage than cloth wearers.

[Gilgemesh]

The armor change is just to give physical damage survivability to the classes that get smoked by physical damage. This will allow for better balance in pvp as well as allowing things such as forced boss whirlwinds and such in raids not to be a cloth killer, giving better ability to give massive raid damage without having to ensure every clothy is topped off or they're dead. This with the changes in healing will mean a more interesting game for healers, dps, and tanks alike. They already said health pools are going to get much bigger in cataclysm, so this could make pvp more interesting too, especially with the resil change. I see a more balanced system coming, and that is better for everyone.

[zcks]

Let's compare

Plate (2641) - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51129
Mail (1477) - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51150
Leather (665) - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51189
Cloth (354) - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51156

Each armor tier has roughly double that of the tier below it. However what this results in is that plate currently has 4 times as much armor as leather, and 8 times as much as cloth. This is the disparity that the developers are talking about. What they want is that plate only have maybe 2-3 times as much armor as cloth. You're still going to be taking a fair bit less physical damage than cloth wearers.

thing is though most cloth wearers are already have tools to reduce damage that they take such as inner fire for priests, soul link for locks & mana shield & ice barrier for mages, I can agree with giving leather wearers more armor because frankly a rouge will get nuked in the duration of a stun but if cloth classes get more armor melee classes should get more survivability CD's as well to compensate.

[Deleted]

What about PvP then?

Even if YOU don't care about it, it's a part of the game, and it's gonna bring issues.

Edit: And lots of tears.

IDD.... especially when i'm lvl'ing my dwarf warrior atm to do pvp/tanking

[Panoramixe]

thing is though most cloth wearers are already have tools to reduce damage that they take such as inner fire for priests, soul link for locks & mana shield & ice barrier for mages, I can agree with giving leather wearers more armor because frankly a rouge will get nuked in the duration of a stun but if cloth classes get more armor melee classes should get more survivability CD's as well to compensate.

ALL talent trees will be completely overhauled and another post on the front page said they'll add a lot of extra spells to classes as well. So it's eally useless to talk about this change, without considering the complete picture (which is blank untill we get either alpha info or a beta release.)

[Mermeoth]

just another step to make all classes completly same

[Pally4ever]

thing is though most cloth wearers are already have tools to reduce damage that they take such as inner fire for priests, soul link for locks & mana shield & ice barrier for mages, I can agree with giving leather wearers more armor because frankly a rouge will get nuked in the duration of a stun but if cloth classes get more armor melee classes should get more survivability CD's as well to compensate.

I think that give more armor stat to all the armor sets is something necesary, because in some years(if wow last until then) the gap will be too huge and for cloth and leather weares it will be like going naked (rouges .agree).

But what is botheing me is that every class is going to have almost the same health

In PVE the status of tank will be a litlle blured, becase someone with a DPS talent tree and little changes of armor (to add a little damaga avoidance) will be able to tank, adding the fact that now block (I think that they are going to delete this stat soon) will offer much less protection, it will be no difference if the tank use two weapons wich give dodge adn stamina or a shield.
In PVP when armor stat is secondary it will be like everybody will be wearing the same and it will lost the sense of the armor types and the classes becuase it will liooks like everybody is playing the same character.
I hope that Blizz change the damage system too, so if you hit a leather you will take 1/4 of life, and if you hit a cloth user you will blow up more than half his/her life

[Panoramixe]

just another step to make all classes completly same

Yes all classes play exactly the same, it's like playing runescape.

Are you klidding me? Blizzard is doing an amazing job trying to balance pvp/pve while still keeping classes very unique. This change will just give them more possibilities to make classes unique through the abilities they use, instead of boring stuff like passive stats from gear. This ties in nicely with the way they're planning to change all talent trees or are you going to complain removing the 5% crit in the first tier of your talent tree is removing the uniqueness of your class?

I have actually played all classes past level 60 and I KNOW they're different and it's not the 500 armor and 1k hp that makes the difference.

[Daerken]

Yes, they should take more physical damage since they are wearing less armor.

OP, here's what may really trip your mind. They have said that because of how they itemize there will be a lot of "tanking" plate that actually has LESS stamina than the dps equivalent.

So we may run into situations where the tanks end up with less HP compared to DPS.

Wacky eh?

Well, here's you simply missreading what they actually said. They just said that DPS classes will have more HP later COMPARED to what tanks will have. See the difference?

I hope they won't make it too close to the tanks, cause my hp to me is like what spellpower is for a mage. It's what people ask for. (I rather look at avoidance but people don't care about that >< ).

Atm it's fun to go and pvp as prot pala, can't make it in arena though as a proper tank since we run oom way to quickly. But in bgs, why is it fun? Cause I sure take my time to kill anyone, but it takes lots of people to kill me. That will disappear now with this, I won't be able to kill anyone as a tank. (Same lvl ofc).

Someone wrote about repair costs, yeah plate has more durability, but at the end of the day - who has paid Far more? Tanks.
Why do tanks get more hp? That's how it's always been - we're tanks. If you get hp, will be doing the same amount of dmg as you as a dps then?

I'd say this is killing my tanking spirit abit actually. With the thing about "anyone" being able to tank - with tanking things, like just changing stance and grab a shield and you're settled. Sure, if the tank would die in a 5man and a warrior could quickly taunt the boss and have def stance and shield etc. But reason for me to roll a tank, was that people wants you to go everywhere, you're needed. Yes, "real tanks" will be needed in raids. But it will be boring as Fuck - what do we have now then? Yes we will have our parry dodge block, but no def? Stamina, I like having 25k+ health than dpsers and healers. I'm a tank. I don't do much dmg, I eat dmg. That's what I like. What's the freaking point if we'll end up having, let's make it easy, 70k hp, then we have healers with what - 50k hp? Dpsers with 50k+ or maybe even more 60k hp?. No reason whatsoever to tank in pvp anymore.

I hope they make that "achievements going into account achievements" thing, cause heck, I wanna reroll.

I'm tired and probably mistyped stuff, and maybe I cried to much - don't give a f.

I'm just thinking of how op druids will be, and what about hunters pets? I hope they won't run around with 60k hp. Still need to see the difference but yes, I really think this will kill some of the current "tanking community" and WoW will end up with an overload of noobs (=people who are new, at stuff) that wants to tank, while the real tanks will just be something to use during raids. "Bring the retard - not the class".

Jolly good. *qq mode off*

You will STILL have more HP! Here's the problem: people are blowing this up, a lot. As I said higher up in this post, it's just more compared to the tank, also, burst damage will be DECREASED! Meaning you, as tank, will recieve less damage.

Another thing is, players shouldn't be bosses. WHY should it take SEVERAL players to take you down? There should be enough damage reduction for you to die slower, but not enough damage output to kill that easily. Which would end up in a situation where the DPS and the tank-specced-player will get close to lower HP together. As it is now (I play mage), it's only about having enough luck to get a Polymorph work when a Rogue CloS:es or doing it without him popping sprint, coming close and finish me off in a matter of seconds. Sure, he is a Rogue, they should have burst (which I hope they have in Cata), but not enough so they actually can just press a few buttons and 5-shot me. Then you also have to consider that Rogues use leather, which grants them waaaay more HP than I will ever reach, don't let me get started on Hunters >.<

My point being, the difference shouldn't be as noticable as it is now. Whenever I see a Prot specced Warrior running around with 35k+ HP in PvP I just QQ to myself and think about all their stuns.
We also have to consider all the changes made to the talent-trees, Path of the Titans which will put even more individuality to players. Can't wait!

Well, IMO, Cataclysm seems to only bring us good things! Maybe the only exception is the "ROFLCOPTERCOOEL" Worgen, which will flood everything like Blood Elf palas

[Sàbin86]

Is it just me or this is a plain nerf to plate wearers?

Be it a reduction to our mitigation (more damage taken from melee attacks) or be a reduction to our damage done (less damage done to targets who see their armor raised), it completely sucks...

Especially beacause i still get rotflpwned by 10k ChaosboltingIncinerating Locks paired with OLOLOLavaburst shammies or I-CC UR Healurz cuz imMa Fros-T-e-Ballin Mage ..

Meh i hate blizz...

[granpa_jo]

My main concern, is that while plate gave more health, and more mitigation as a general rule, when "evening out" the armor types and giving the 'lower' armors more effectiveness to bring them more in line with plate, they are forgetting one crucial factor. Magic damage ignores armor. The entire reason clothies had lower health pools and lower armor, was because it was balanced out by the fact that their damage was a 1 for 1 exchange against any armor type (excluding things like resilience, resistances and the like, just talking vs armor alone), where as white damage would be mitigated. Evening that out tips the balance in favor of casters who are still getting that 1-1 benefit, but are now harder to kill for classes like rogues and warriors, who rely primarily on physical attacks. Being a clothie caster was a trade off. More damage, more mana, at the price of durability. Now they are getting the durability with no sacrifices to damage.

[Corathor]

My main concern, is that while plate gave more health, and more mitigation as a general rule, when "evening out" the armor types and giving the 'lower' armors more effectiveness to bring them more in line with plate, they are forgetting one crucial factor. Magic damage ignores armor. The entire reason clothies had lower health pools and lower armor, was because it was balanced out by the fact that their damage was a 1 for 1 exchange against any armor type (excluding things like resilience, resistances and the like, just talking vs armor alone), where as white damage would be mitigated. Evening that out tips the balance in favor of casters who are still getting that 1-1 benefit, but are now harder to kill for classes like rogues and warriors, who rely primarily on physical attacks. Being a clothie caster was a trade off. More damage, more mana, at the price of durability. Now they are getting the durability with no sacrifices to damage.

This assumes that blizzard is not reducing the ammount of 'damage' that casters are doing via the change in spellpower, we do not yet know what the conversion ratio will be, nor do we even know what the talent trees will be like for casters... they -still- wear cloth.. they will still take alot more damage than someone in plate, get over it.. quit crying, and play the damn game.

[dudedduu]

Any player can kill any other person despite class, its all based on skill. I've seen a couple of ele shamans and balance druids kill a rogue 1v1. Just about whos more skilled. and Enh shamans are bitchs to kill if they know how to CC will wolfies are out but indefinitely I agree with you

enh shaman/balance druids need more survivability.

Equally skilled and geared ofc

[fishface]

Doesn't seem fair to me considering that plate wearers get no resistance to spells as we upgrade our gear while the other classes with lower armor do.

inb4 '' qq lol noob ''

In what way do clothies, mail wearers and leather wearers get better spell resistance from their gear upgrades?

Blizz are just making armor classes do what they're meant to do, give a certain class of armor.