Ret PvP

[Lolretadin]

So I was about to get into competative arena and wanted to know...
1) What is the best seal for PvP?
2) Are there any mods I should DL?
3) Is there a specific spec that is better for PvP than the normal PvE spec?
4) Is gemming any different?
5) Is there a specific gear setup that I should have? (Ex: 2pc T10 & rest pvp)

This is a link to my armory
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...cn=T%C3%ACrion
It doesnt seem to be loading though.

[Galiant]

As far as I can tell, Seal of Righteousness has the most "reliable" burst so that tends to be favored. If you spec and glyph for it + the 10% judgement damage, it goes a lot higher than for example judging Seal of Command.

EDIT: Your gear currently has 0 resilience on it so I can't say anything about that =)

[iflame]

So I was about to get into competative arena and wanted to know...
1) What is the best seal for PvP?
2) Are there any mods I should DL?
3) Is there a specific spec that is better for PvP than the normal PvE spec?
4) Is gemming any different?
5) Is there a specific gear setup that I should have? (Ex: 2pc T10 & rest pvp)

This is a link to my armory
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...cn=T%C3%ACrion
It doesnt seem to be loading though.

1) seal depends on the comp. If your doing 2s I suggest SoR
2) Sure, gladius helps but I dont use it, standard bartender can always be nice.
3) Would a resto druid going into arena with a pve spec. Yes they could but they wouldnt get any better
4) Not really, for set bonuses in blue you can gem sovereign dreadstone, and red should be standard BCR
5) Only pve gear you should be using is to get over hit rating. So 1 or 2 pieces off of set is nice. Ashen verdict ring helps too.

[zcks]

First off I have to say good luck as pre resilience change there was less then a hand full of ret paladins in all the top 100 teams for each bracket.

Second as far as pve gear goes it all depends on your bracket for 2v2 & 3v3 you almost have to have the 2 piece t10 for your burst to be high enough to not be laughed at by enemy healers, as for other gear a couple of pve rings like the ashen verdict rep ring and the triumph badge +hit/strength/crit ring are good choices. for the rest of your gear I'd advise getting 232 stuff from honor & Wg. As for how much resilience you want anything over 650 or so is good for 2v2 & 3v3 but you want over 750-800 or so for 5v5 as you will the prime target after healers.

You will also get allot of mixed suggestions on what gems to go for, allot of people suggest all strength but I have found strength/crit to be better unless the slot is blue with a bonus of 4+ strength in that case use +10 stats or strength/stam. The reason I advise strength/crit gems is because allot of our ability to survive/instant heal & do big burst is based on scoring consistent crits & without them you have to take time to cast which can lead to being interrupted & silenced.

Now for tactics & builds, you could go with http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin#f2abI7PiMFqYB,daYO-q,11623 build for maximum survivability, You wont have as much burst on single targets but you will be a pain in the ass to kill & can use seal of command & be in a cleave team.

Or you could go with http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin#99QnCzXbvW4Ri,yadO-q,11623 this build will give you more single target burst though it still wont be anywhere near the burst ele shaman & locks can dish out, this build also does not have as much survivability which makes it harder to stay alive vs those classes that counter us.

[iflame]

First off I have to say good luck as pre resilience change there was less then a hand full of ret paladins in all the top 100 teams for each bracket.

Second as far as pve gear goes it all depends on your bracket for 2v2 & 3v3 you almost have to have the 2 piece t10 for your burst to be high enough to not be laughed at by enemy healers, as for other gear a couple of pve rings like the ashen verdict rep ring and the triumph badge +hit/strength/crit ring are good choices. for the rest of your gear I'd advise getting 232 stuff from honor & Wg. As for how much resilience you want anything over 650 or so is good for 2v2 & 3v3 but you want over 750-800 or so for 5v5 as you will the prime target after healers.

You will also get allot of mixed suggestions on what gems to go for, allot of people suggest all strength but I have found strength/crit to be better unless the slot is blue with a bonus of 4+ strength in that case use +10 stats or strength/stam. The reason I advise strength/crit gems is because allot of our ability to survive/instant heal & do big burst is based on scoring consistent crits & without them you have to take time to cast which can lead to being interrupted & silenced.



Or you could go with http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin#99QnCzXbvW4Ri,yadO-q,11623 this build will give you more single target burst though it still wont be anywhere near the burst ele shaman & locks can dish out, this build also does not have as much survivability which makes it harder to stay alive vs those classes that counter us.

only if your using 2pc t9 should you be gemming crit. Stick with str and sometimes off gem stam. 2pc t10 is not necessary to get proper burst to get down healers, depends on your comp(double dps dont use 2pc, healer ret, depends on the healer)

Arena isnt all about zerg, its about timing cds right and making proper switches and use of your partner. As a pally you do need a good partner with a good class. If your looking into doing double dps I suggest a unholy dk. A proper dk that gems and gears right will roll right over a priest and has enough peel to save your skin when you need it. Dont let people tell you pally/rogue is still viable, IMO its really not anymore with the res changes. I have tried to run pally rogue with a lot of geared rogues and there are just too many counters.

If your looking into running with a healer look for a resto druid, or disc priest. If you play with a resto druid you will want to time your cc'es right along with managing DR of cyclones on targets. A disc priest will be a very offensive team, teamed up with pennance and mass dispel you cna last a long time while doing a good amount of damage.

IMO start out with 2s and then look into 3s. Some viable 3s ret priest rogue. And ms war, holy pall, ret.

[xdwbx]

Start by farming badges for Furious gear, or using your Frost badges for Relentless gear if you are going for pure PVP here.

Pretty much you're going to want to go full PVP gear, with the exception being the Ashen Verdict ring from ICC (if you are Ret mainspec, unfortunately I'm prot mainspec), your weapon (if you have access to PVE weapons), and your trinkets.

Greatness is good. I would probably go with the 256 AP Battlemaster's trinket over the Anvil.

To reach the 4% hit cap you can go with a combo of the Relentless Ring or Ashen Verdict Ring, the hit cloak or neck, and the 12 hi 12 crit boot enchant. That should put you around 130 hit.

When gemming, I use 10str 15stam in blue slots and 20str in red slots. In yellow I'll typically throw a 20str in unless the bonus is good. I use the 21 crit 3%damage meta because I satisfy the requirements with my gemming scheme anyway, and it is marginally better than 22 agi 3%damage. Not a big deal though.

Enchant your back with 22 agi. I go with 10 stats to chest. More mana, AP, health, armor, crit is more valuable than 20 resilience imo.

Your main source of damage will be your seal...which will be Seal of Righteousness...which cannot crit. So I suggest not gemming for crit really. You get enough from your gear and everyone has so much resilience anyway nowadays that the fact that Righteousness cant crit should be kept in mind.

For addons I use Gladius, Pitbull UI, and Decursive. All are personal preference, but Decursive makes your life a lot easier countering the ccs put on you and your partner. Gladius makes it easier to switch targets when you are standing in a snake trap and have 3 million pets in your face.

Personally, I abhor doing 2s with a healer. I'm not a fan of 15 minute games, which was a common experience when I rolled with my resto-druid friend. Granted, we had a higher success rate than double dps, the amount of games I could play without being mentally exhausted due to the lack of an ms or interrupt against other healer/dps teams was not many.

Now I roll with my brother, a Frost Mage, and it is glorious. I am able to get 3-4x the amount of games done in a night and even though my win/loss ratio isnt quite as high, it is a much more enjoyable experience climbing the ladder this season.


For 2s partners you can do very well with just about anything. I have done games with Ret/Arcane Mage, Ret/Frost, Ret/Resto Druid, Ret/Disc Priest, and Ret/Shadow Priest and they all seem to work. You just have to get your playstyle down and practice with your partner. I prefer to play with casters in 2s because Hand of Protection is pretty amazing against the overwhelming amount of melee/healer teams...and using that on a caster allows them to continue to dps/cc whereas a melee partner has to run and hide or click it off only to be focused again.

Other viable comps off the top of my head are Ret/Affliction Lock & Ret/Marks Hunter. It will be difficult for you if your partner lacks considerable cc, an ms, or a high level of skill because all we inherently bring is a decent amount of pressure, awesome dispels, and off-heals.

For 3s, I roll with a Resto Druid and an Arms Warrior. Ret is a bit more valuable in 3s than in 2s. With 1100 resil, I'm usually the last of us to go down and with the Arms MS my burst is, in most situations, enough to bring my target down quickly.

[ScatteredBWL]

Aside from the obvious, you need gear blah blah, babble, few things that'll probably help.

Seal of Righteousness > All except in certain situations in pvp. Currently in 2s I'm running Ret / Resto Shaman at about 2350, and I wind up using Seal of Corruption alot for warrior / healer teams because the games can last along time and you need to put out maximum pressure to win, ofcourse switching midfight to righteousness to pull a quick switch to healer without trinket is always fun aswell.

Secondly, pvp gear is your friend, the 4set bonus for pvp gear is really nice and I'm currently running 4/5 reletn with my wrath shoulders. only pve piece I have is trinket and my exalted ashen verdict ring and Skill Arbiter. Resil is a pretty good thing for rets in things like 3s because after your poor bubble is gone you're pretty much in your healers hands except for maybe 1h/shield to ward off a melee here and there.

3rd, MACROS ARE FUH TUH WUH, every ability you have needs to be a macro, literally every keybind I have is a macro of some sort, from a start attack macro moded into each of my attacks to things like

#showtooltip
/startattack
/cast [nomod] Judgement of Light
/cast [mod:shift] Judgement of Justice
/cast [mod:ctrl] Judgement of Wisdom

And support spells ofcourse (cleanse used in example)

#showtooltip
/cast [nomod, target=mouseover] Cleanse
/cast [mod:shift, target=Party1] Cleanse
/cast [mod:shift, target=Party2] Cleanse

^I have a macro like that for every support ability in my arsenal, IE, Hand of Freedom, Hand of Protection, CLeanse, Flash of Light, Holy Light, Sacred Shield, Hand of Sacrifice, etc.

4th, comp, 2s I personally really enjoy Ret / Resto sham however it's not easy to play and takes alot of coordination to land kills with nothing but windshear and 1 min CD cc's.

Strong 2s:
Ret / Rogue
Ret / Enhancement (also pretty difficult)
Ret / Resto Sham
Ret / Mage (with really good mage)

Strong 3s:
Ret / Rogue / Priest
Ret / Warr / RShaman
Ret / AfflicORDestro Lock / Rshaman
Ret / Hunter / Rshaman or Disc

Strong 5s:
Kinda on your own here but any form of melee cleave will work for example
Ret / Dk / Warr / Rshaman / Disc
Ret / DK / MM / Rshaman / Disc
Ret / Enh / MM / Rdruid / Disc
etc etc

For 5s the 0/20/51 or w/e the socleave spec is might be worth it if you're running a SUPERMELEEOHCHITCLEAVE type comp but I'd personally still stick with SoR.

As far as gemming it's still the same really other than you can open a few slots to Sovereign gems extra 150 hp never hurt in pvp.

Current spec I run is 7/11/53 for the fear reduction, divine sac, etc etc.

I think that's enough of a wall, if you want personal tips reply to this and I'll post a few things from my personal point of view.

[Deleted]

As PvP is designed atm, you need atleast 800 resi to survive a decent arena, unless you go for double dps teams based on very high bursts.

The talents, eye for an eye is nice, aswell as the fear reduction in holy tree and stoicism, reduces stun duration and some dispel thingy.

[Whoopzz]

I haven't got back into pvp this season (I ended up rerolling a shaman afterall), but I suggest using all pvp gear except the Ashen Verdict Ring and PvE trinkets if applicable. Gem all strength, as crits value is severely diminished with resilience. Use SoR unless you're in a cleave team. Macros, macros, macros. You're a support class, use your defensive spells and you'll do fine. Faceroll and only worry about damage and you'll fail hard core at higher ratings.

The best advice I can give is to go holy, though. Ret is shit in the arena, and has very little potential of going much further past 2k.

[gurusotah]

so trying to go arena as retri is a bad choice m8
whatever you do , you will be smashed easily with CC and kiter classes doent really matter and resillance is the only way to go only to survive ,and try to figur out how many retri paladins are in top 100
answer>less then 4
yes you see many paladins BUT all are holy :P
because retri paladin dps is very balanced, so forget uber critics ,as many players play atleast with 700-1200 resilance

do you see any post about LOLZ OMFG RETRI BLA BLA OH 15k critic PALAS OP NERF POSTS no ,not anymore
all wow community is satisfied after pala nerfs ,the day you start to see such posts GO FOR RETRI again

ALL IN ALL > go holy or JUST REROLL .............

[Whoopzz]

so trying to go arena as retri is a bad choice m8
whatever you do , you will be smashed easily with CC and kiter classes doent really matter and resillance is the only way to go only to survive ,and try to figur out how many retri paladins are in top 100
answer>less then 4
yes you see many paladins BUT all are holy :P
because retri paladin dps is very balanced, so forget uber critics ,as many players play atleast with 700-1200 resilance

do you see any post about LOLZ OMFG RETRI BLA BLA OH 15k critic PALAS OP NERF POSTS no ,not anymore
all wow community is satisfied after pala nerfs ,the day you start to see such posts GO FOR RETRI again

ALL IN ALL > go holy or JUST REROLL .............

I just chose to reroll, but agreed on that statement.


You know Ret has rock bottom when nobody (the QQ'ers alike) considers Ret a viable spec for arena...

[zcks]

I just chose to reroll, but agreed on that statement.


You know Ret has rock bottom when nobody (the QQ'ers alike) considers Ret a viable spec for arena...

Whats even more sad about this is blizz said in 3.1 & 3.2 that when our burst was nerfed they would give us offensive utility & we have yet to see it. Heck at this point most of us would just be happy if they gave our self buffs more resistance to dispel effects so our defensive utility isn't worthless. They will probably never give us that utility though as long as we have divine shield as ret, & at this point we would be better off without it since its countered by 2 of the more common classes in arena & its so easy to force us to use it.

[zcks]

As PvP is designed atm, you need atleast 800 resi to survive a decent arena, unless you go for double dps teams based on very high bursts.

The talents, eye for an eye is nice, aswell as the fear reduction in holy tree and stoicism, reduces stun duration and some dispel thingy.

he is right on 2/3 counts, stoicism is a must & even then its only simi useful as it is easy for mages, priests, shaman (& hunters to a lesser extent) to dispel spam. Fear & disorient reduction from talents is useful if your speced for more burst but not worth it if your using the max survival build. Eye for an eye is almost useless though as it only does 10% damage back to your enemy when they crit & that 10% is reduced by talents & resilience so its just too easily countered by even passive healing.

[iflame]

so trying to go arena as retri is a bad choice m8
whatever you do , you will be smashed easily with CC and kiter classes doent really matter and resillance is the only way to go only to survive ,and try to figur out how many retri paladins are in top 100
answer>less then 4
yes you see many paladins BUT all are holy :P
because retri paladin dps is very balanced, so forget uber critics ,as many players play atleast with 700-1200 resilance

do you see any post about LOLZ OMFG RETRI BLA BLA OH 15k critic PALAS OP NERF POSTS no ,not anymore
all wow community is satisfied after pala nerfs ,the day you start to see such posts GO FOR RETRI again

ALL IN ALL > go holy or JUST REROLL .............

Shut up, and stop trolling this thread. Good retri's can be unstoppable in a good comp. Its bad rets that re-roll that give us a bad name. FYI holy will just get kited and blown up as easily as rets, trust me I do it myself as a ret.
-Good players learn to play their class, bad ones think switching specs gets them a free 1800(hell 1800 is free anyways).

Back on topic: To play ret in arena really does depend on your comp, double healer is becoming increasingly difficult to play as the resi changes are starting to hurt our damage and our burst. If you are considering playing healer/ret consider a resto druid or a disc priest. With a resto druid make sure to time your DR and CCs right and use proper burst at the right time. Disc priest is pretty straight forward as the priest should be playing pretty offensively. Double dps comps are quickly going down, as ret/rogue a once viable comp is basically unplayable unless played perfectly. My current comp in 2s ret/uh dk is very very strong still. Was a very quick 1900. It heavily relies on the dk being able to continue the CC train after you use your HoJ. As in any comp make sure each player has the proper spec and gems to correspond with your comp and you use to its greatest abilities.

Strong 2s:
Ret / Rogue : not anymore
Ret / Enhancement (also pretty difficult) : very very hard to play
Ret / Resto Sham : has potential
Ret / Mage (with really good mage) : deff relies on the mage

Strong 3s:
Ret / Rogue / Priest : still viable
Ret / Warr / RShaman : swap in Hpally instead of shaman
Ret / AfflicORDestro Lock / Rshaman : still viable
Ret / Hunter / Rshaman or Disc : again a hpally would work better

Strong 5s:
Kinda on your own here but any form of melee cleave will work for example
Ret / Dk / Warr / Rshaman / Disc : viable
Ret / DK / MM / Rshaman / Disc : viable
Ret / Enh / MM / Rdruid / Disc : my favorite
etc etc

Current spec I run is 7/11/53 for the fear reduction, divine sac, etc etc.

I think that's enough of a wall, if you want personal tips reply to this and I'll post a few things from my personal point of view.

[ScatteredBWL]

If you think an Hpal would be better than a disc or a Rsham on Ret / MM / Healer team then you're an idiot...no one runs 2 pallies in one 3s comp that's ridiculous it takes 1/3 of your utility out of the comp, with priest comes MD, fear, burst, mana burn etc, with shaman comes LUST, purge, tots(tremor and grounding specificly) and so on if you honestly thinking running anything as Ret / DPS / Hpal you're a complete idiot...

And ret/rogue still works...saying it doesn't because of resil changes is absurd, the resil changes might have hit rets fairly hard but when coupled with a rogue? RARELY will anything survive that burst especially if both sides are...you know...GOOD.

So yea this "Ret / Hunter / Rshaman or Disc : again a hpally would work better" you threw into your post is retarded....top ret 3s comp ATM is Ret / Hunter / Rshaman.....please if you think you know what you're talking about you don't...so yea ....Two pallies on a 3s team....that wants to be above 1900 rating lolrite.. the only thing double pally on a 3s team ever worked on was Viox's comp in s5 with double Hpal UH Dk....since then NO SIR pally lacks too much utility to be played with more than one on a 3s team....the end.

[xdwbx]

Maybe this is a silly question.

Why do I see a lot of paladins going 3/3 Fanaticism instead of 3/3 Righteous Vengeance?

From what I have read, Seal of the Righteous cannot crit. Unless this limit is only on the seal and not the judgement, then I can't see a reason to take it. Furthermore, would not the DOT from RV be better than an improved chance to crit on judgements? It is a potential stealth breaker and helps our sustained damage, and frankly, in the higher arena brackets we need all the help we can get with no interrupt, ms, or gap closer.

Someone please enlighten me.

[gurusotah]

to read some comments about PRO-retribution paladins in forums make me laugh

especially, players with comments like " a good played retri pala is unstopable in arenas" /troll on the way be careful.....(yes unstopable with your 4k critics on 1k resilance players nice try dude) or(get UA on you with bunch of dots,poisons e.t.c and dispell the crap and get 8-10k critic on you while other dots and crap tick and your healer will break fingers to heal you)..........
OR
getting a holy paladin in 3 combs make my day 8) (holypaladin/dps>which no idea/retribution paladin)> yes go for it ???
it seems that you have never played in 2vs2 combos against warrior/holy>that will kick your butt while watching news on TV ;D
so if you want to win try rogue combo....
rogue/retri> must burst as soon as possible because the longer the fight is ,the lower chance to win
3vs3 and 5vs5 > holy is your best choice,3vs3 retri/mm hunter/and Rshammy may work ,but after dps nerf of retri, it may be real pain to play at that combo too

go holy>get some arena points and 2,2k then buy retri gear and run around ,as if you got all as retri,so kids will adore you

as a veteran MMO player with my team still together(2 brothers and 6 RL friends) from lineage and everquest
i dont see any light for paladins as retribution in arenas anymore :-[ (and stop that" RETRI SHINE AT BG BULL SHIT please)" ,all classes shine at bg.
By the way, i have some galdiator titels from old seasons with my mixed combos in 4 teams and we all as team have 1 grand marshal at our mains ,so i dislike people like you who is the real troll.......

to a real pro retri paladin who got highest title with holy/DK/retri combo>MUST BE YOU Iflame

and thank you blizzard as we get INSANE OFFENSIVE ABILITIES AFTER 3.1
KEEP GOING PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DaGhostDS]

Why do I see a lot of paladins going 3/3 Fanaticism instead of 3/3 Righteous Vengeance?

From what I have read, Seal of the Righteous cannot crit. Unless this limit is only on the seal and not the judgement, then I can't see a reason to take it. Furthermore, would not the DOT from RV be better than an improved chance to crit on judgements? It is a potential stealth breaker and helps our sustained damage, and frankly, in the higher arena brackets we need all the help we can get with no interrupt, ms, or gap closer.

seal =/= judgement

Seal cant crit but judgement can, if you want to get an Art of war proc, fanatism is the way in high resi fight
RV break CC (except repentance) and rely on crit to be applied, good in BG since most run with low resilience (100 resi and 14k are everywhere)

[Minich]

For pvp you'll want to run 2 piece t10 (shoulders/gloves) and 3 piece wrathful, wrathful offset with ICC exalted ring, (you'll only need the hit cloak or neck for offset other can be crit) Wrathful weap and badge libram. Trinkets are you to you (atm I use double deaths verdict)

Gem full str with nightmare tear in the legs for the +6 str bonus.


With this set up you'll be ~5800 ap, 39% crit and 948 resil and 180+ hit


This seems to be about the best set up i've seen/made and I really wouldn't go to much lower on resil (all these people saying 600-800 resil is fine are wrong) rets are very easily focused targets as they are easy to kill due to nothing really defensive (besides freedom kite which any good team will dispel instantly)

[iflame]

to read some comments about PRO-retribution paladins in forums make me laugh

especially, players with comments like " a good played retri pala is unstopable in arenas" /troll on the way be careful.....(yes unstopable with your 4k critics on 1k resilance players nice try dude) or(get UA on you with bunch of dots,poisons e.t.c and dispell the crap and get 8-10k critic on you while other dots and crap tick and your healer will break fingers to heal you)..........
OR
getting a holy paladin in 3 combs make my day 8) (holypaladin/dps>which no idea/retribution paladin)> yes go for it ???
it seems that you have never played in 2vs2 combos against warrior/holy>that will kick your butt while watching news on TV ;D
so if you want to win try rogue combo....
rogue/retri> must burst as soon as possible because the longer the fight is ,the lower chance to win
3vs3 and 5vs5 > holy is your best choice,3vs3 retri/mm hunter/and Rshammy may work ,but after dps nerf of retri, it may be real pain to play at that combo too

go holy>get some arena points and 2,2k then buy retri gear and run around ,as if you got all as retri,so kids will adore you

as a veteran MMO player with my team still together(2 brothers and 6 RL friends) from lineage and everquest
i dont see any light for paladins as retribution in arenas anymore :-[ (and stop that" RETRI SHINE AT BG BULL SHIT please)" ,all classes shine at bg.
By the way, i have some galdiator titels from old seasons with my mixed combos in 4 teams and we all as team have 1 grand marshal at our mains ,so i dislike people like you who is the real troll.......

to a real pro retri paladin who got highest title with holy/DK/retri combo>MUST BE YOU Iflame

and thank you blizzard as we get INSANE OFFENSIVE ABILITIES AFTER 3.1
KEEP GOING PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry but your grammar and paragraph structure has gave me a very bad headache. I'm pretty sure all comps can be beat by any comp. People play rets because they enjoy the class, as do I. IMO no one should be looking for glad if there starting out now. Depending on your BG glad can be almost impossible to get without years of experience. Any other title is completely possible as a ret paladin.