@ Copain, dyce

[dogpie]

Read through 5 pages of argument in the "please lock new ideas thread" thread which turned into a ret pvp thread, and then got extremely annoyed that I couldn't post a reply because it had gotten locked.

(link to previous thread: http://www.mmo-champion.com/class-pa...dea%27-sticky/)

@Copain

You said in one of your posts that you aren't even Ret, you are Prot. In my opinion, you don't have a strong basis of your arguments as none of them are of your own experience, they are your speculation, and you are arguing against full time rets. Nice.

@ Dyce & Copain

You guys keep saying that Ret burst is in a good place because we don't have to apply any sort of debuff before we can do our "maximum/full" damage (assuming we are using SoR in pvp, which is still not our max damage, SoV is). You actually compared it to a destro locks immolate + CBs. lol. You keep saying "full" and "maximum" damage, as if its any respectable damage at all. Against high-res opponents, Rets REALLY DON'T HAVE ANY DAMAGE. 2k judgments, 1k melees, 1k CSs, and the occassional 1k exo! Against an opponent with more than 20k health, at times more than 30k health. You. do. not. know. what. you. are. talking. about.

What burst really is, this was argued about in the thread. Burst is not someone that doesn't have to cast and can deal their "FULL AND MAXIMUM" damage without stacking any debuffs up, not when their "FULL AND MAXIMUM" damage is 4-5k judge + 1k melee + <1k seal at against respectable opponents. No. Burst is being able to kill your opponent when you want to, it doesn't matter if it has a 4 second cast. In arena you coordinate your moves, you switch bursts fast, you make instant kills to try to catch the other team off guard. In a 3v3 arena, say with 1 healer 2dps on each team, if the teams were exactly the same, except for a Ret pally on one team and a Destro lock on the other, and one team was to make a sudden switch against the other team, Destro lock wins. Why? Because a Destro lock that can take 4 seconds to deal a 8-12k chaos bolt IN ONE HIT is more effective than a Ret pally who runs to you, pops wings, and hits you 4-5 times. Burst is not when you start casting, burst is when the first damage is dealt. Remember that.

@ mods
I don't know why a serious discussion about Ret pvp was locked. Sure it might've been getting heated, but it hadn't turned into a troll thread, and people were throwing logical statements (some people at least, the others were all speculation).

[Requital]

While I agree there was no reason to lock the thread that late into a discussion some people just can't handle being wrong and when they are that is their call to have something stopped. The thread unfortunately was full of misinformation which is what generally happens when people that have no idea about Ret talk about it.

[Kairu]

Rets REALLY DON'T HAVE ANY DAMAGE. 2k judgments, 1k melees, 1k CSs, and the occassional 1k exo! Against an opponent with more than 20k health, at times more than 30k health. You. do. not. know. what. you. are. talking. about.

Wat.


You sure you know what YOU'RE talking about? I play ret in my 3s team, nothing to special, but we can do decently. If your damage is that low, then you might want to look at your own gear before you start blaming your enemy's gear... seriously...

When you pop wings, your damage is crazy, whether you choose to believe or not, also, I herd dat u dun haz a partner in areenz nemore.

While you do 20k with your damage, your partner not gonna do the other 10-15? Not going to fear, CC, interrupt, etc?


PvP isn't mean to be solo walk up and own anything standing in your way, its meant to be a team thing where you support each other, and paladins moreso being one of the most supportive classes.

[Requital]

20K is definitely exaggerating your numbers because we don't do 20K damage as soon as we pop wings not to mention in Serious Arena above the 1500 bracket you can't just pop wings when you feel like it or you get completely destroyed by the opposing team and you have no defensive out.

[Kairu]

20K is definitely exaggerating your numbers because we don't do 20K damage as soon as we pop wings not to mention in Serious Arena above the 1500 bracket you can't just pop wings when you feel like it or you get completely destroyed by the opposing team and you have no defensive out.

Me and my hunter buddy can literally pop an 800 resil mage in 1 second.

Yes you DO do that much damage with wings up. I didn't really mean instantaneously, but, pop a repent on the non-trinket healer, pop wings. Boom goes the dynamite.

One game that comes to mind is this one, vs a bunch of buddies from our realm, note the mage Lunaspectra.

http://www.wowarmory.com/arena-game....46&b=Bloodlust

[DaGhostDS]

Me and my hunter buddy can literally pop an 800 resil mage in 1 second.

Yes you DO do that much damage with wings up. I didn't really mean instantaneously, but, pop a repent on the non-trinket healer, pop wings. Boom goes the dynamite.

One game that comes to mind is this one, vs a bunch of buddies from our realm, note the mage Lunaspectra.

http://www.wowarmory.com/arena-game....46&b=Bloodlust

its the hunter, not you
and 1 second.. ya right
156 seconds of sleeping after that? because the match lenght was 157sec

[meag333]

its the hunter, not you
and 1 second.. ya right
156 seconds of sleeping after that? because the match lenght was 157sec

While I completely agree about the hinter part, ret damage isn't as nearly as bad as people make it out to be. The problem is hardly the damage though. It's lack of interrupt or MS. HoJ and repent have been shown to just not cut it in high rated arenas. And if you get glyph of salv, if you have a healer thats worth anything, and do it at a reasonable amount of health, it can definately count as a defensive cd. Especially if you keep SS up.

[Riek]

That thread was one of the most amusing thread in this forum nowadays, can you guys keep going on this one? xD


imo though 2k judge and 1k exor seems bit exaggerated.. but I agree to the fact that ret dmg def isnt burst. It's a burst if your oppoenent isnt wearing pvp gears.... in bg i gues

and @kairu, your link shows that hunter did most dmg... im not sure if that link proves your point strongly

[dogpie]

Me and my hunter buddy can literally pop an 800 resil mage in 1 second.

Yes you DO do that much damage with wings up. I didn't really mean instantaneously, but, pop a repent on the non-trinket healer, pop wings. Boom goes the dynamite.

One game that comes to mind is this one, vs a bunch of buddies from our realm, note the mage Lunaspectra.

http://www.wowarmory.com/arena-game....46&b=Bloodlust

Your ratings are good but...

notice how you did half the amount of damage that the hunter did?

Go figure. (and your opponents are at 400 rating while you're 2k <.<)