Get out of my content (Heroics)

[Aion]

Heroics are NOT to gear up scrubs. They were for that purpose over a year ago. Time passed you by. Things changed.

Now heroics are for raiders to get 2 frost badges. If you don't like that, I'd recommend finding another game to play. When you hit max level in the tail end of an expansion for an MMO? Expect to have a harder time of it than someone who hit max level at the beginning.

You should be buying BOEs instead of farming heroics.

It's not harder than it was, it's easier. You get more badges, runs are faster, and gear is better. And yes the purpose of heroics is still and forever will be to gear up for raiding, or to provide people who don't raid a gear progression.

[Geckomayhem]

I completely agree with you, OP. We do heroics with our alts, or even mains if a casual player, because it's the only way to get gear and emblems (for higher level gear). I've never met someone that came into a heroic and thought they had to "boost" or "carry" the lower level players; simply because that's retarded thinking (literally, it is retarded; I'm not using the word in a derogatory sense).

It's hella fun to zerg heroics in 15-20 mins for two frost emblems, but everyone has to start somewhere. I always ensure that my alts are as geared as they can be by the time they hit 80 (all craftables and BoEs with as many items from key quests as possible). But there is a limit to what you can have. You'll find that half your gear is still iLev 187 when you start doing heroics. To think that there is no interim point is absurd.

But really, it's no skin off my back if people look at my blue DK or warrior and scoff. I'll just keep on entering heroics and pulling my weight. The majority or players out there understand that you have to enter heroics to get the gear. Mix it up with the three icecrown instances and hope for your drops (which could take forever, anyway).

[Geckomayhem]

Heroics are NOT to gear up scrubs. They were for that purpose over a year ago. Time passed you by. Things changed.

Now heroics are for raiders to get 2 frost badges. If you don't like that, I'd recommend finding another game to play. When you hit max level in the tail end of an expansion for an MMO? Expect to have a harder time of it than someone who hit max level at the beginning.

You should be buying BOEs instead of farming heroics.

Before this troll reply here degenerates into bickering, I'd just like to point out that this is an arrogant, selfish point of view. I, and millions of other casual players, pay money each month to play this game the way that I want to. So get out of our content. Heroics are the best way for up and coming players to get their gear. Take your hardcore attitude somewhere else, like ICC-25, where you can swim with all the other sharks with no lives.

[Ganoes]

It's not harder than it was, it's easier. You get more badges, runs are faster, and gear is better. And yes the purpose of heroics is still and forever will be to gear up for raiding, or to provide people who don't raid a gear progression.

It is harder and considerably more time consuming and grindy to get into ICC 10 / 25 than it was to get into Naxx 10 / 25. I was MTing Naxx 25 in week 2 wearing mostly blues. And doing just fine with it.

And no, heroics are for the daily two frost badges. Not to provide an alternate venue for gear progression. You are a fresh 80? Do like other fresh 80s did and go run some Naxx 10. More badges, more gear drops, and more fun.

[Ganoes]

Before this troll reply here degenerates into bickering, I'd just like to point out that this is an arrogant, selfish point of view. I, and millions of other casual players, pay money each month to play this game the way that I want to. So get out of our content. Heroics are the best way for up and coming players to get their gear. Take your hardcore attitude somewhere else, like ICC-25, where you can swim with all the other sharks with no lives.

Not a troll. Blame Blizzard for forcing two competing groups (the undergeared being the VAST minority) to run the same content for entirely different reasons.

Heroics are for our two frost badges. We will do anything to make our runs as fast as possible. If you impede on our completion rate then we will remove you as fast as we possibly can.

[ComputerNerd]

Besides the first heroic of any day for the frost, which anyone will do anyway given a chance then heroics are aimed primarily at those still gearing up towards raiding content.
The emblem farming for gems or other items is encouraging a lot more players who need nothing else but the emblems into them, and if they cannot get the same smooth experience that they expect from a raid, despite the heroics usually consisting of random people then they complain about it.
Really players need to get over themselves and grasp the prospect of random.
Experience will vary, skill will vary, attitude will vary.
Those of you who overgear them are the ones who should not be there, not the other way round so remember that.

[Jon]

Honestly, the majority of people in heroics probably fall into one of two categories.

1) People there for triumphs and gear
2) People just getting their two EoF's and be done.

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So, "heroics are only for new players" isn't the case until Blizzard stops putting top tier emblems there.

This.

If I'm tanking with one of my ICC geared chars and we get an instance like Halls of Stone I might ask "Fast run OK for everyone?" And if someone insists on doing all the bosses I'll probably just leave, no hard feelings. I can queue up my other tank while the deserter buff fades away.

If I'm playing with an alt who actually still needs Triumphs, I will not complain if the group wants to skip bosses.. the sooner we finish the sooner I can place myself in the queue again.

Those of you who overgear them are the ones who should not be there, not the other way round so remember that.

BS. As has been said in this thread many times, as long as you can get Emblems of Frosts from dailies, those "overgeared" people belong there too.

[Offhand]

I'd just like to point out that this is an arrogant, selfish point of view. I, and millions of other casual players, pay money each month to play this game the way that I want to. So get out of our content. Heroics are the best way for up and coming players to get their gear. Take your hardcore attitude somewhere else, like ICC-25, where you can swim with all the other sharks with no lives.

I hope you can see your own irony here. Casual/hardcore has no bearing on what heroics are for. Raids are designed to be easy and completable for "casuals", heroics are designed to give two frost badge a day so the "hardcores" can grind them. You'll find both in both levels of content, so don't act like one group owns them instead of the other.

As I pointed out way earlier in the thread. There's two groups with two different goals in heroics. There's the "get all the gear and triumphs I can to gear up" group and there's the "get my two frosts and be done" group. One wants to clear the instance as fast as possible, not have to deal with gearing up or inexperienced player, and skip all bosses that they can. The other wants a more progression paced instance, is OK with poorly geared players, and wants to do every optional boss. That, ladies and gentlemen, is a conflict of interest.

In patch 3.2 Blizzard implement a system whereby you could get 2 of the top tier emblems by doing the heroic daily. One might say that this was designed to allow people who don't raid a chance to get top raid level gear. But, at the same time, they upped the costs on all the badge gear, more or less forcing people to run the dailies if they wanted to get emblem gear at a similar rate from previous tiers. This is easy to check.

In T8, a 25 man tier helm cost 58 badges.

In T9, a 25 man tier helm cost 75 badges (and a trophy). This is when top level emblems became available from a daily heroic.

In T10, a 25 man tier helm cost 95 badges (and a mark). 2 top level badges are still available from heroics every day. Additionally, the random raid weekly and Icecrown raid weekly each give 5 badges a piece, upping the number of badges even further. It's also possible the emblems-per-item were upped to slow down progression as well.

So, what's the fix? Well, you'd need to remove EoFs from heroics. But that would also unintentionally screw with with the rate at which you get gear from the badge vendor, the cost of emblem gear would need to be lowered intentionally as well. That way, I'd never need to do another heroic until the next expansion and you can claim heroics as content "only for you".

If I'm tanking with one of my ICC geared chars and we get an instance like Halls of Stone I might ask "Fast run OK for everyone?" And if someone insists on doing all the bosses I'll probably just leave, no hard feelings. I can queue up my other tank while the deserter buff fades away.

My personal approach is "We're going to clear the bosses everyone is interested in, and those that want the extras can stay after we're finished with that".

TLR. No one gets to claim heroics as their own when both groups have legit interest in them.

[Ershiin]

There are jerks on the internet. WoW is part of the internet, thus there are jerks in WoW.

[Tobyjohn]

I thought this was something where you moaned about ppl doing Hc's with shit gear, but it was actually moaning about the moaners who moan about ppl with shit gear in Hc's...

i like you!

[francism]

I have 8 level 80s at the moment and all of them have run a daily heroic since patch 3.3 was launched (with the exception of the few days we had no power here). Yes, 8 is a lot but I have extra time since I work from home. Out of the 8 characters, 2 are tanks, 2 are healers, and 4 are DPS. So yes, I've run my fair share of heroics.

When I tank on my DK, I'm the top damage dealer more often than not. My warrior tank pulls just under 2k DPS which usually puts him 2nd on the damage done list. This alone is not enough to bother me, but the DPS that are pulling 1.1-1.3k DPS are, and lately there have been two or three in my groups. When Wrath launched, the general rule of thumb on my server was ~1.5k DPS for heroics, ~2k DPS for 10 man Naxx/Sartharion, ~2-2.5k DPS for 25 man Naxx/Malygos. People gave shit to DPS back then for not pulling their weight, why should it be any different now? My healers don't let people die (unless they are woefully undergeared) and my DPS chars all do at least 4k DPS overall.

Over the past 2 weeks, I've seen a big increase in the number of 'fresh 80s' in heroics. I'm not sure what the reason for this is, but I've had more than my fair share of DPS joining the group still wearing the green weapon they get from the first Northrend quest they get, right off the boat.

The other phenomenon I'm seeing on both my healers and on my DPS characters are DKs/Paladins/Warriors who insist they can tank with little to no tank gear. These folks typically zone in with less than 30k hp that refuse to put on a 1 hander or shield (if they are a warrior or paladin) or any kind of defensive gear and DKs who think that Frost Presence makes them immune to critical strikes (wish I was making this up). I can understand that you don't find it fun to wait 15-20 minutes in a queue, I have 4 characters that fit into this category unless I get into a guild group. But that doesn't make it acceptable to queue for a role that you cannot fill.

At this point, if someone zones in with mostly greens and blues and isn't pulling 1.5k DPS, is healing but cannot keep the group up, or is tanking but cannot hold aggro or stay alive due to the massive amounts of damage they are taking, I advise them that there are places they can gear up to do heroics. These include normal instances (which provide ilevel 187 blues, 200 epics, and 219 epics), reputation gear, quest rewards, BOE epics, or *gasp* running heroics with friends or guildies. Sometimes I'll take a look at their spec or glyphs (if they even have glyphs) and make suggestions. Most of the time, I'm told to go **** myself when I'm genuinely trying to help them out. The other problem I have is that the people who aren't receptive to suggestions then complain the loudest if the group decides to skip a boss. The attitude I see is not of people who are trying their best and attempting to gear up, it's people who are looking for a free ride to get emblems. It's not the case all the time with fresh 80s but it's becoming very, very common.

So yes, if you aren't doing your job in a heroic, I'll probably say something to you. Yes, you may have just hit 80 and I'm happy for you, but it's not fair to the other 4 people in the group when you aren't able to tank, heal, or do more than 1.5k DPS. If you don't want to hear any constructive criticism, either get better gear outside of heroics, read up on the rotation for your class, run some heroics with your guild, or think twice before hitting the random queue button.

You can call me selfish, greedy, elitist, w/e. But I don't see why people who just hit 80 should be judged any differently now than what we expected from people over a year ago. Do your jobs and you won't get any complaints from me.

[Sylreick]

And no, heroics are for the daily two frost badges. Not to provide an alternate venue for gear progression. You are a fresh 80? Do like other fresh 80s did and go run some Naxx 10. More badges, more gear drops, and more fun.

Lol, so you're saying that the gear dropped in heroics isn't meant to be used by anyone other than to be sharded? Get your head out of your ass.

Everyone has the ability to do heroics, if you don't like it/want to go faster, tough, find guild mates. Heroics are the pre-cursor to raiding, has been, always will be. Sure it might be "easier" to buy gear... if you can tolerate the less fun daily grinding for the multiple thousands of gold for boe's.

Heroics don't yet drop frost only do they? Then they are indeed for people to gear up prior to raiding.

You need to quit being a dick.

[Astray]

i'm still only halfway through reading the replies, some nice opinions going on, but this one concerns me, you seem to think i am the one raging about bad players and my heroics being slower where in fact i am currently the shit geared dk working his ass off to look somewhat respectable against the higher geared people

No, i don't. It was more related to all those T9 people who kickvote anyone with less than T9 because it might make the run 2 minutes shorter.

[Elixor]

Would be interesting to watch a pvp server elvolve with "casuals" on one side. And the "elitists" on the other side... :P.

Tho I don´t think there would be so much action anyways...

[Rixis]

No, i don't. It was more related to all those T9 people who kickvote anyone with less than T9 because it might make the run 2 minutes shorter.

sorry for my misreading the intention and thank you for clearing it up

as for the "people not pulling their weight", i don't mind them per say, but i'm less likely to watnt to continue doing heroics with them (sometimes you get good groups that do heroics for hours, i've had such groups and they were a lot of fun), what riled me most was the fact it was decided i sucked without being given any chance whatsoever, i normally run around 2000-2300 overall dps in heroics, sometimes my damage will be lower than the tanks, but i'll be helled if i don't try my best, and with cooldowns running my dps can spike to 4800 (highest i seen so far)

as for the "don't do heroics for gear, do naxx" ... wtf? when did you hit level 80? months after me i can assure you if this is what you think, naxx gave around 15 emblems at the time if you could manage a full clear, 4 or 5 from sartharian, you wouldn't get every gearslot filled with ilevel 200 epics in 1 week, sometimes not even within a month, heroics offered more emblems for the emblem of heroism loot as well as ilevel 200 blues and epics to fill in the extra slots, do you think that heroic loot is just there so you can get enchant materials quickly?

i know raiders will go for their frosts, i do myself on my raiding characters, sometimes i have fun, sometimes i feel annoyed i have to run something i've done to death, i'd prefer if there were no frost emblems from heroics, even if only for a week, so we could see how heroics went without all the high raiders

heroics were never "for 2 frost badges", those frost badges never existed in the early days of LK, the best you got was the daily normal and daily heroic which were a specific zone anyway, its beginning to feel like old content is being taken over by people that have "their own" content anyway (as i've said numerous times before, uld/toc/icc content is most certainly not for my dk and his peers unless we feel like wiping all day with fights taking forever if we don't die), heroics are for 2 frosts now, and lord only knows why blizzard felt the need to add the best form of currency to the lowest form of instance (excluding normals), its akin to adding 2 frost emblems from the last bosses in raids, bloody ridiculous

[cravenm]

Heroics are NOT to gear up scrubs. They were for that purpose over a year ago. Time passed you by. Things changed.

Now heroics are for raiders to get 2 frost badges. If you don't like that, I'd recommend finding another game to play. When you hit max level in the tail end of an expansion for an MMO? Expect to have a harder time of it than someone who hit max level at the beginning.

You should be buying BOEs instead of farming heroics.

or just wait for the Great Epic Vendor who gives out free gear to all the good girls and boys!!!

[cravenm]

It is harder and considerably more time consuming and grindy to get into ICC 10 / 25 than it was to get into Naxx 10 / 25. I was MTing Naxx 25 in week 2 wearing mostly blues. And doing just fine with it.

And no, heroics are for the daily two frost badges. Not to provide an alternate venue for gear progression. You are a fresh 80? Do like other fresh 80s did and go run some Naxx 10. More badges, more gear drops, and more fun.

wow what was heroics for before wotlk? a place for you and only you to do or was it a place to get gear? your argument is for shit on all my toons i and a lot of other people did heroics for gear and or badges.