New guild in need of a loot system

[geonexus]

Try the Me>you system it has worked for me since i started playing but otherwise loot council.

[DVNikon]

The idea behind EPGP is better than DKP is as follows:

DKP = 0 sum and can be a pain to manage and people do skip rolls for sandbagging DKP for BiS.
EPGP = same can be done but with a decent weekly decay then people that understand EPGP will roll because they will loose 15 out of every 100 points for each night of raiding that they could spend.

This difference is major as it leads to good distribution across the raiders so that the whole raid gets upgrade and the guild progresses.

[phantomlink]

my guild uses Furious Raid ( coded by our GM )

2 point categories, Armor ( old 8 set tier ) and Non Armor

every 30 minutes is 0.5 points in both categories. When someone can win an item that drops a list is populated by the addon and everyone who wants it whispers the RL/ML that they want the item. Highest points wins and their points are reset.

the more you show up for raids, more points you gather, more items you win. To us the points are showing how many items you bid on to improve your character and how long it's been since your last upgrade. everyone who has tried it or seen it in the guild has loved it over anything else they've used before

[Symphonic]

Here's the best one: Loot Council. Simple, easy. People link the item they are currently using, officers chat about who should get it based on either performance or how much it will help the guild.

[Nangz]

Here's the best one: Loot Council. Simple, easy. People link the item they are currently using, officers chat about who should get it based on either performance or how much it will help the guild.

Then explain when the officers become biased and take loot for themselves?

this needs to be said

NO LOOT SYSTEM IS THE BEST


also.
Project Marmot from tankspot.com made a 20 min 2 part video all about loot systems. Very helpful use it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Ciderhel...32/G5Mk0vT7C_c
http://www.youtube.com/user/Ciderhel...30/Mmi5ePRzetE


watch em and learn.

[Fuzzzie]

Have the people that want the item tell a joke. Funniest Joke wins.

[Kevdidthis]

I personally dislike loot council due to it having officers play favourites.

I remember being in a guild with a friend who always chummed the officers and was on vent on off-raid hours and he was quite an average player, never did as much dps as he could and died semi-frequently but due to being more social and the officers liked him automatically got given gear. At the same there was a really quiet asian guy in the guild who made 100% raid attendance and consistently top 5 dps, but because he was never on vent and hardly online outside raid hours due to his real life commitments he was always lower on the gear priority list. Which honestly I didn't think was fair, although a lot of guilds want their members to be social outside of raids its still sort of sad to see gear distributed specificly on who the officers like.

[Gilles]

Loot council. Set up your criteria for who gets loot and let the guild decide if that criteria is satisfactory. When you start distributing loot based on that criteria you may want to give a short rational for highly sought after pieces of loot for a little bit.

DKP is awful. It rewards attendance over anything else, god forbid you have a real life issue that prevents you from raiding cause you just lost ground on the pack. It also unfairly punishes people who buy gear and then Blizzard changes their talents/gear/glyphs and the item is longer ideal. For instance, as a Disc Priest, the 4 pc set bonus for healing is god awful and completely useless, but the upcoming patch is going to completely change it for the better. So if you've used your dkp to purchase off-set gear but now you need tier tokens, tough shit/have fun negotiating a dkp refund of some sort.

Loot council can take into account all the dumb shit that raiding is, like attendance vs skill, but it allows you to make decisions based on what's best for the guild instead of being tied down to whoever has the biggest number of magical DKP points.

you do realise magical dkp points drop once they get used, unless someone is spending dkp like crazy (meaning their geting loot) they will get too the top of the magical dkp, I have nothing against loot council neither but DKP with a decay, and -dkp for people who arnt doing their job properly(meaning atendance > Skill isnt true)like not dying to maleboo goo's every atempt etc. works just fine.

to the OP, theres alot of good sugestions here, im sure you've found something, like alot of people said as long as you have some trusted officers and mature enough members loot council is nice.

[abn_inf]

For a new and unestablished guild DKP systems are probably best, there are several methods to keep people from hoarding too. My previous guild did a zero-sum system(http://www.wowwiki.com/Zero-sum_DKP) where everything was fixed price and the person with the most dkp took the item. There are 2 addons that make it very simple to do, WebDKP(need an account with the site and its free) and NRT. To combat hoarding you can do a few things, idea's i've seen vary from a...

decay : which can be helpful because it can help people who go into the negative

soft ceiling : say you cap dkp at 300 and everyone who goes over that gets taxed 5% or brought to cap again, which ever is less

some random name : This one specifically targets people who pass over on upgrades to hoard and can start falling prey to the whim's of the officers, basically if something gets sharded everyone that can use it has to prove that they have better within reason and who ever doesn't gets docked for not bidding on the item, again discression is involved there.

But basically there is no BEST system, theres simply a lot of system's out there that have some really good points and some serious flaws. You have to look at your individual situation and find the "least-worst" system for you.

[Romanos]

Loot council is horrible IMO. No matter how mature people are about it, someone will always be pissed with a decision.

[Thetruth1400]

DKP was the best system I've encountered and my favorite overall. I liked it slightly modified to have a cap on the amount of DKP, and it didn't roll over from one raid to the next. (You can't farm Naxx, then save the DKP for ICC.)

Players were rewarded for their attendance and also for kills. Yes, you might get 5DKP each for going and attempting bosses for an hour and wiping, but it wasn't as good as if you killed the bosses so for new content, you weren't basically doing nothing by attending.

Loot was also set at a fixed price and bidded on. The DKP system I used was set up in tiers so if someone had 25 DKP and another person had 26, it wouldn't automatically go to the highest one, but would then be rolled on by both since it was an upgrade they both wanted, and they both had very good contribution.

It's a very stable system and rewards your players based on the contribution they make to the guild and the raids. It's not like a player that shows up once a month, but pulls the highest DPS is really contributing to the progression of the guild, where as someone who constantly comes in say 7th, but is there every week is still putting the effort in and killing bosses.

[Endus]

The problem with loot distribution is simple. People, in general, suck. Whatever system you use, someone will think they should have gotten that piece of loot instead of the guy who did, and they will make up whatever reasons they can to try and prove their point.

It's like politics and government. Every single system humanity has ever developed is terrible and demeaning and unfair. Some are worse than others, however. With loot systems, it's best to pick it by whichever problems you can best deal with.

1> Random rolls. Random is the epitome of unfair. Before anyone says random rolls have an equal chance to everyone, yes, that's true, but equal is not the same as fair. An evil rich guy and a honest, decent but poor guy have equal chances to win the lottery, but it would be more "fair" for the decent but poor guy to win it.

2> DKP. Like others have said, DKP puts attendance above skill, need, and everything else. My guild used to run a DKP system, but it lead to those who regularly attended hoarding up DKP and, once they were geared, they could either grossly outbid for any gear they wanted, but they also outbid others for gear that was a sidegrade solely because they didn't want the new guy getting stuff. We found out about this after, and it took a few gkicks and changing the loot system to settle things back down. And this was with a built-in decay system.

3> EPGP. I've never used it, but it looks like a normalized DKP type system, preventing hoarding as much. However, since it removes the likelihood that people will win gear the more geared they are, this serves to evenly distribute gear between your players, regardless of their skill levels or how good an upgrade a given item might be. New players who raid a lot will like it, but solid occasionals and veteran regulars will end up hampered.

4> Loot Council. This system is exactly as good, or bad, as the people on the Council. My guild currently uses this, and the only people we've had any real loot complaints from over the last year or so have been new hires with serious entitlement issues. We have no hard rules on the voting; if you set rules on how officers vote, you've killed the point of the system and may as well just use those rules to mathematically assign gear. The measures we typically use, though, include competence, attendance, recent gear earning, and how long they've been with us. While that latter might look like we gear the officers and our friends first, it's only one factor, and it usually just means they'll get the first bit of gear they link for, and then they've recently won something so they'll get passed over for a bit. The advantage is that if someone's being terrible, we can prevent them getting rewarded with gear for it. If someone's gone a long time without something, we can ensure they get the next piece they want. If it's an okay upgrade for one guy but a best-in-slot for another, we can ensure it goes to the guy who needs it most.

Of course, if the loot council is unprofessional, it's the worst possible system you could have. I won't even say if they're corrupt, because any system can be gamed by corrupt officers. DKP/EPGP systems can have points magically added, for instance. But unprofessional behaviour will kill a loot council system and piss your players off faster than anything else; your players have to be able to see that loot being assigned, over several weeks of raiding, is generally being assigned fairly and equitably.


TLR; Every system has flaws and people will complain about loot assignments regardless of which one you're using. They all strike a balance between "equal" and "fair/right", some leaning more towards one, some to the other. Pick the one you and your guild are most comfortable with.

[jontaxe]

Council v DKP = Plato's ideal of an enlightened philosopher king vs the western idea of the rule of law, not men.

What I'm saying is this question has been tossed around for as long as civilization has existed, don't expect to answer it once and for all here.

Loot council is the best option when your guild has 100% faith in the fairness of the loot system. If that confidence in the leadership is gone, your guild is about two loot drama filled weeks away from disintegrating. Please note: It's not enough just to be fair, it must be perceived as fair. If you have a bunch of 15 year old drama queens, that might be an impossible bar.

DKP leads to some non optimal behavior that has already been outlined, but it is impartial and transparent.

So there you go. The best loot system is very guild dependent. Take a realistic look at your raiders and your leaders. Can the leaders execute a fair loot council? Will the raiders be adult about it? Then go loot council. Will the officers give loot to their buddies? Will the raiders bitch and moan and cause drama? Go with DKP.

[Elysia]

Peggle Loot.

[DigitalMocking]

EPGP is the best loot system i have encountered. It is similar to DKP as it promotes raid attendance.

tsrh

[extine]

Peggle Loot.

[TheNarwhal]

Peggle Loot.

but on a more serious note,
people in this thread that are saying "i'd give the item to the guy who is here 100% of the time and not so skilled over the guy who is barely here ever and really skilled" baffle me. Seriously, all the really skilled people i have ever encountered are at every single raid.

EPGP sucks, get over it. Go with DKP with SERIOUS penalties for failing.

[Vortha]

Suicide Kings is what we use and it works great

[Nepenthes]

/random 100

People will complain no matter what you do. /random 100 requires no effort to implement or track, so has the best officer stress:complaint ratio of any loot system.

[Antegon]

I have run into a variety of Loot systems over the years and through various games. DKP is the most prevelant system that I have encountered and usually works very well with most of the drawbacks having been listed already.

The most interesting and in my opinion fairest system I have run into was the loot list system. Every potential raiding member in the guild was required to create a list of items (from 10-20 depending on the instance and number of bosses) Prioritized by what they wanted the most(number one) to what they wanted the least(in ICCs case say twelve.) Once submitted the lists would be fixed.

All of these lists would be submitted to the guild loot master/raid leader who would spreadsheet these lists and post the spreadsheet on the guild forum, new members would not have access to this forum and would have to submit their lists without knowing what other people had chosen before hand.

From here it becomes the most fair loot distribution I have seen. Since everyone knows what everyone else has on the list there is no loot council qq. If two raiders had an item at #1 on their list then the first time it dropped they would roll on it, whomever won the roll would win the item and they would no longer have a number one on their list. The next time it dropped it would automatically go to the only other raider whom selected #1. If no one had it selected as number one then the loot would go to the person who had it listed as the highest priority on their list(ties still equal rolls here.)

When/if attendance is an issue you just make simple pre-defined adjustments to your numbers. For instance, if someone dropped below 90% then all of their numbers would become +1 and it would add another +1 for every 10% (this is reflected in the spreadsheet which does take time to initially set up then becomes fairly easy to maintain after that) so now the raider with less then 90% attendance only has numbers 2-13 instead of 1-12. This rule would also apply to new raiders, allowing those with longer attendance history to maintain their 'I was here first' advantage for a little bit while new raiders knew that with good attendance they shortly would be at the same level as older raiders

IMO opinion it is a great system that allows players to select what items they want, when they want it and doesn't deal with the messiness of DKP bloat or passing on rolls in EPGP or perceived favoritism of Loot Councils.

In addition it promoted raiders researching the instance and looking at what bosses dropped what so you ran into less instances of a raider blowing a ton of DKP or rolling on an item that was a minor upgrade for them but a major upgrade for someone that couldn't spend that much DKP. Or people holding up loot to check to see if something was an upgrade or not.


EDIT: Clarification, when someone wins an item from their list it does not effect the rest of their list, someone that wins their #1 item does not now have items 1-11 instead now they only have items 2-12