Weapon Worries

[Gallahadd]

Oookay been rocking the Bonebreaker http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50760 since about our second Marrowgar kill, and it's served me real well. But tonight we got Putri down and he dropped the Facelifter http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51010 now RAWR says that I should stick with Bonebreaker, but I wasn't quite so sure. the dodge and parry and roughly the same (on me) but the main difference is with Bone im hit capped, but nowhere nearly Exp cap (even with glyph) but if I switch out to Facelifter I drop a little below hit cap, but get much closer to Exp.....plus it looks cooler......

TLR version, I can't decide, Bonebreaker or Facelifter, what do Y'all think?

[Ardelia]

I prefer having enough exp and being alil below hit, but thats just me and Facelifter does look so much better :P

[Gallahadd]

doesn't it just thanks for the quick reply.

P.S. I'm guessing Mongoose is still the best thing to stick on this badboy?

[Ardelia]

Mongoose is great, but if you are close to hit, you could grab Accuracy for that 25 hit.

[Gallahadd]

that's not a bad idea that think my friend can do Accuracy as well, saves paying the crazy AH prices.

[Needonboots]

I think, THINK, that while you're below 26 Expertise, that Expertise will provide more threat for you than hit.

Hit cap is super unimportant for a tank. I have roughly 160 hit. In Ulduar progression I was barely hitting 100. Unless you're osmehow having huge threat issues, it's just not an important factor.

[mtotho]

1 dodge is not equal to 1 parry. At equal amounts (percentages in the defense pane), Parry and Dodge are about equal, where Parry is situationally better, however, due to the nature of diminishing returns, 44 Dodge is definitely more avoidance than 41 parry.

As far as hit/expertise goes, expertise is better if your not capped, though you should be if you have the vengeance glyph. I believe Hit rating has been proven almost useless for threat generation (correct me if im wrong), especially at levels near hit cap, but it is situationally useful and important for taunts, unless u have the glyph

So the Avoidance of the Bonebreaker is better, and the Expertise of the sword is probably better.

Verdict: Like you said, the putricide one looks cooler + its harder to obtain, so thats the obvious option IMO (bragging rights?).

[Nikoll]

assuming you are hitting 26 expertise or more either way the mace is going to out threat the sword because of weapon speed and how SoC works. So really it all comes down to your exp/hit. if you have the exp go mace.

[Gallahadd]

fair enough, looks like the Sword is the way ahead for me, only hitting 20 Exp w/ sword, 16 w/o, so what I might do is use sword for now, but keep the mace in the bank, so once my Exp gets a bit higher I can swap em back over.

and as to Parry/Dodge even though Parry does have a harsher DR curve, as I have ALOT more dodge rating that I do parry, I'm getting roughly the same amount of avoidance, as although the curve is harsher, I'm starting much further down

now the really important question, does anyone know if I put Mongoose on the sword, will the lightning effect show

[mtotho]

i wouldnt put mongoose on it. Blood draining is preferred. Mongoose is better for druid tanks.

[Gallahadd]

nah, I had Blood Draining on my Ardent Guard before I got Bonebreaker, did not like it at ALL, hardly ever procced, and when it did it did VERY little to save me from dieing, if the boss had such in mind. From now on the only enchants I even consider are Mongoose, Accuracy, and because my mate raves about it all the time Blade Ward, although I've never actually put it on one of my weapons.

[Todyn]

nah, I had Blood Draining on my Ardent Guard before I got Bonebreaker, did not like it at ALL, hardly ever procced, and when it did it did VERY little to save me from dieing, if the boss had such in mind. From now on the only enchants I even consider are Mongoose, Accuracy, and because my mate raves about it all the time Blade Ward, although I've never actually put it on one of my weapons.

you do realize Blood drain is the best Survival enchant available right, due to its proc mechanics

[Needonboots]

i wouldnt put mongoose on it. Blood draining is preferred. Mongoose is better for druid tanks.

Mongoose is fantastic for paladins.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...wtopic#p529014

1% dodge is not equal to 1% parry in 2 ways... Some believe Dodge to be the better stat, which may be true.. and parry undergoes much more diminishing returns.. so you may only be getting .5% parry (worse stat?) from the weapon , whereas you get .8% dodge (better?) from the other.

I think you're a little confused here. Avoidance wise, 1% dodge and 1% parry are exactly the same. Moreover, assuming 1% of each, parry is actually the better stat as it provides a non-trivial amount of haste due to the parry-haste effect.

What you seem to have mixed up is that 1 dodge rating and 1 parry rating are not equal, avoidance wise. The perfect balance between the 2 is 1.88 dodge : 1 parry. Closer than that, dodge provides more avoidance, rating for rating, and vice versa.

[Todyn]

Mongoose is fantastic for paladins.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...wtopic#p529014

I think you're a little confused here. Avoidance wise, 1% dodge and 1% parry are exactly the same. Moreover, assuming 1% of each, parry is actually the better stat as it provides a non-trivial amount of haste due to the parry-haste effect.

What you seem to have mixed up is that 1 dodge rating and 1 parry rating are not equal, avoidance wise. The perfect balance between the 2 is 1.88 dodge : 1 parry. Closer than that, dodge provides more avoidance, rating for rating, and vice versa.

Mongoose is ok, since its only a proc:

taken from maintankadin:

Rokkon sums up the weapon enchant options this way:
If you feel comfortable with your health pool, go agility.
If you feel a bit squishy, go blood draining.
If you have threat issues, go accuracy.
If you're a thrill seeker, go mongoose.
if you're poor, go titanium weapon chain.
If you're old school, go potency

[mtotho]

I think you're a little confused here. Avoidance wise, 1% dodge and 1% parry are exactly the same. Moreover, assuming 1% of each, parry is actually the better stat as it provides a non-trivial amount of haste due to the parry-haste effect.

What you seem to have mixed up is that 1 dodge rating and 1 parry rating are not equal, avoidance wise. The perfect balance between the 2 is 1.88 dodge : 1 parry. Closer than that, dodge provides more avoidance, rating for rating, and vice versa.

Thanks for the correction. Ive changed my initial post as to not confuse anyone who knows less on the subject than myself.

[bawkbawkboom]

As Tankadins are always infront of the boss...for obv reasons... Expertise is, and will be the best threat stat you can get up until hard cap at 56(?!). 26 is the soft cap in which melee go for as it prevents the boss from dodging from behind. In front of the boss you are still prone to the bosses chance to miss as well as Parries. So IMO, I would go for the one from Putricide, as you will find the expertise is more beneficial than the lack luster hit on there. Added to that, seeing as your are under the Expertise soft cap, I would suggest picking it up regardless. Is that quoted expertise rating including SoV/SoCorr glyph that gives you 10 expertise when in the respective Seals?

Added to that, a little thing from maintankadin I found very useful. (character sheet dodge% - 10) / (character sheet parry% -10). If the answer is <1.88 then dodge is better, if its >1.88 then parry is better (I think its that way round :P). The closer you are to the optimul 1.88# both stats are as beneficial as each other. (This is BEFORE you take off the ICC 20% dodge debuff, as the debuff is including Dreturns, and this is what we have to keep an eye on when judging avoidance viability).

Bawk

Edit: Mongoose is rated the single best all rounder enchant for pallies, not just druids. It's proc chance is higher than bladeward, as well as its duration being longer. Therefore overall, it will give you better avoidance, especially as 1) BW is consumed on its next hit, one time proc, Vs the duration of Mongoose. 2) Mongoose also provides a small amount of threat, as well as a small amount of armour. 3) Dodge has considerably less Dreturns compared to Parry, so in a lot of cases, the parry you get from BW is wasted, or atleast a certain amount of it.

[Aedh]

Just to clarify.

Expertise is the best threat stat until soft cap.

Hey look a link, with math and colorful graphs.
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...wtopic#p521995


And um mongoose and bladeward have the same proc chance, so you are half right.

[Gallahadd]

Added to that, a little thing from maintankadin I found very useful. (character sheet dodge% - 10) / (character sheet parry% -10). If the answer is <1.88 then dodge is better, if its >1.88 then parry is better (I think its that way round :P). The closer you are to the optimul 1.88# both stats are as beneficial as each other. (This is BEFORE you take off the ICC 20% dodge debuff, as the debuff is including Dreturns, and this is what we have to keep an eye on when judging avoidance viability).

aah thanks for that, had heard 1.88 mentioned, but had no idea how that number was reached :P good to know, but I'd really like conformation as to which way round the dodge and parry are :P is is < dodge better or > dodge better :P

[conqq]

I think, THINK, that while you're below 26 Expertise, that Expertise will provide more threat for you than hit.

Hit cap is super unimportant for a tank. I have roughly 160 hit. In Ulduar progression I was barely hitting 100. Unless you're osmehow having huge threat issues, it's just not an important factor.

FALSE!

I cannot say how many times I've missed a taunt due to lack of hit, it's unbelievably important to get at least the melee cap

[Sligboy]

26 is the exp cap when you're facing the back of the boss......but if you're tank you only face it when you're dead.....so you need a lot more exp to be cap.
Is dodge still usefeull....with the 20% debuff not really, and people who likes to do some maths will proove it to you, unfortunaltly i d'on't do maths