A vanish fix that won't work

[Orcbert]

Every few days there is a new post about the vanish bug, and every time someone has the same suggestion about making vanish give you a one second immunity to damage. This won't work for quite a few reasons. First, lets look at what the vanish bug is and isn't.

The vanish bug is not a coding error. This isn't a simple software fix that has been around since launch that no one feels like fixing.

The vanish bug is a problem caused by the real life physical limitations of data being sent around the world to one server and being processed in the order in which it is recieved. Also known as LAG!

Just a few quick logical notes on a vanish damage immunity, it could be abused. Rogues don't need a get out of jail free card for damage. Vanish was never meant to complete negate a large raid wide AoE, which it could easily do in this form. It would also allow for a well timed vanish counter (IE an imidiate AoE such as thunderclap after the vanish) to be avoided.

Now even with the immunity since it is lag based, the error could still occur. It may occur less often, which would be solved by further adding time to the immunity, but then you are giving rogues a longer immunity which could further be abused.

In the end, you have to pick your poison. I don't know how to fix the vanish bug, but the immunity is not the way to do it. The benifits to it are outweighed by the abuse potential plus the relative advantage it gives over other classes well timed and well thought out counters to vanish.

*as a quick note, what about a vanish bug sticky to avoid all the new topics on the subject?*

[Roch The Shaman]

have they tried to make it so that vanish provides a second buff that makes it so dmg wont break yout out of stealth for half sec to a second? if no why not just do that

[Orcbert]

They did try on a PTR. Said abuses of the immunity mechanic occured.

[Halceon]

basically, they need to make it so vanish is makes non aoe attacks not break stealth, but aoe attacks should still break it, since that is about timing and skill rather than some autoattack or something breaking you out, but this of course, is easier said than done i assume

[Orcbert]

I'm not sure what the actual intention is of vanish. Does anyone know if Blizzard wants vanish to break spells already cast but haven't landed yet?

Lets have this senario: Fireball traveling at rogues head, and the rogue vanishes.

Does blizzard intend the fireball to hit or not? Has this been stated either way?

Also, dots should break stealth. If the rogue is stupid enough to use it with a dot on him about ot tick, it's not blizzard's fault.

[Halceon]

I'm not sure what the actual intention is of vanish. Does anyone know if Blizzard wants vanish to break spells already cast but haven't landed yet?

Lets have this senario: Fireball traveling at rogues head, and the rogue vanishes.

Does blizzard intend the fireball to hit or not? Has this been stated either way?

Also, dots should break stealth. If the rogue is stupid enough to use it with a dot on him about ot tick, it's not blizzard's fault.

of course dots should, on fireball, i'd say it should hit and do damage, but not pop them out of stealth, i believe blizz thinks this way too, considering they tried to implement a fix at all

[Sarcasm]

of course dots should, on fireball, i'd say it should hit and do damage, but not pop them out of stealth, i believe blizz thinks this way too, considering they tried to implement a fix at all

By this logic, if a rogue is stealthed and directly in front of you so you can see him, and you cast a Fireball at him, stealth should not break (because a Fireball lands while the rogue is stealthed). Not saying you're a douche but saying that as a programmer I tend to think about these things while sometimes other people don't.

[Annoying]

*as a quick note, what about a vanish bug sticky to avoid all the new topics on the subject?*

We already have too many stickies. I almost didn't make the 3.3.3 one because of how many there were. I'll probably either merge them or lock them, not sure yet.

On topic: You're sorta right. It's not quite lag, but rather a race condition. Even after your vanish is sent to the server, it clumps everything it gets in a particular amount of time into one action, rather than executing them in FIFO order. So if their attack or something gets clumped with your vanish, it either gets processed first or second, and the outcome is vastly different and erratic if your vanish will work correctly or not.

But yeah, it's not a matter of "lol fix 2 lines and it works". Blizzard has clearly stated it would require the complete redoing of their current combat system. Don't expect a fix anytime soon.

[Cactrot]

By this logic, if a rogue is stealthed and directly in front of you so you can see him, and you cast a Fireball at him, stealth should not break (because a Fireball lands while the rogue is stealthed). Not saying you're a douche but saying that as a programmer I tend to think about these things while sometimes other people don't.

Not necessarily. Stealth is not supposed to drop combat (hence not being usable in combat). Being stealthed != recently vanished. Either in logic or in coding. Which is why there's that nifty little vanish buff (increased stealth, and move speed if glyphed I believe.

Point being, both in game and in code those stealth is not the same state as vanishing.

[Longview]

in b4 "l2vanish at the right time"

Vanish in arenas are mainly not used as a mean of escaping, but to get a quick opener on a target-switch, to vanish-immune a spell (like polymorph), or to get the overkill buff.

People who argue that you need to vanish after using gouge and sprinting behind a pillar with cloak+evasion makes me want to smash things.

[windwalk]

its not lag what causes the "vanishbug" its the game mechanic that works in ticks and these tics are quite long (idk the exact number but feels like 200-400ms) . so if a rogue vanishes in the same tick-timewindow as someone does damage to himm, he will be removed out of vanish. its ofc even worse with lag because when you are lagged you have to gamble that no damage will happen in the future ticks on you what will often simply not happen. iceblock does make you immun -it always works same for palabubble bc they work with immunities and vanish should work with it aswell.

[Dinras]

Every few days there is a new post about the vanish bug, and every time someone has the same suggestion about making vanish give you a one second immunity to damage.

This is already live on servers right now as we speak. A talented and lucky rogue can vanish-immune any debuff cast at him/her.

[Dace]

in b4 "l2vanish at the right time"

Vanish in arenas are mainly not used as a mean of escaping, but to get a quick opener on a target-switch, to vanish-immune a spell (like polymorph), or to get the overkill buff.

People who argue that you need to vanish after using gouge and sprinting behind a pillar with cloak+evasion makes me want to smash things.

This, this and this.

[Mrbora2k]

I think the only way to really fix this is to make it teleport you like 20yds in some direction. That way you are out of any AOE range. But whatever they do, they also need to do to Mages. Invis has the same problems. I played a rogue from Vanilla up to WOTLK, and from then on Mage/Druid. So I do know what is wrong with both. Just my 2cp.

[Sarcasm]

Not necessarily. Stealth is not supposed to drop combat (hence not being usable in combat). Being stealthed != recently vanished. Either in logic or in coding. Which is why there's that nifty little vanish buff (increased stealth, and move speed if glyphed I believe.

Point being, both in game and in code those stealth is not the same state as vanishing.

The next problem being if you're 'timing' vanish so the game can tell whether you've recently vanished or not opens up another can of worms concerning latency and timing between the two users, resulting in the same bug we have now. If you're saying "while you have the vanish buff, Fireball shouldn't break stealth, if you're just normal stealthed then Fireball should break it" (which I'm fairly confident you're not) then that's just 10 seconds of immunity.

[Orcbert]

We already have too many stickies. I almost didn't make the 3.3.3 one because of how many there were. I'll probably either merge them or lock them, not sure yet.

On topic: You're sorta right. It's not quite lag, but rather a race condition. Even after your vanish is sent to the server, it clumps everything it gets in a particular amount of time into one action, rather than executing them in FIFO order. So if their attack or something gets clumped with your vanish, it either gets processed first or second, and the outcome is vastly different and erratic if your vanish will work correctly or not.

But yeah, it's not a matter of "lol fix 2 lines and it works". Blizzard has clearly stated it would require the complete redoing of their current combat system. Don't expect a fix anytime soon.

Thank you for the info Annoying! It's been years since I worked with code so it's interesting to learn how these games are able to run. I know alot about theory (older theory that is) but as far as how actual code is processed these days I'm behind the times.