1. #1

    Priest Dying Problems

    Hello everyone,
    I have been reading these forums for quite some time now but never really felt obliged to post anything, however i seem to be encountering an annoying problem consisting of me always being the first person to die and often dying 2 or 3 times in a boss fight. I am at a loss to explain how it happens as i seem to have a good grasp of most tactics and dont suffer from healer tunnel vision. I generally dont die to tactics related obstacles but rather minor, gimicky things such as aggroing the big add on rotface just as i'm about to merge my little add.

    I understand due to the limited information given that it is probably hard to answer this question but any advice on prioritising myself over other raid members and spec advice etc is welcome. I am in a casual 10 man guild who are currently 8/12 in icc 10 man and have long been laughed at for my ironic Undying title, so any help in solving this problem and helping myself to help my guild progress is appreciated. I have included an armory link and a WWS of a recent raid. As you can see my healing numbers are pretty respectable but it all means nothing if i'm dead.

    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...n&cn=Lorindell
    http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/log/1530692

    Thanks

  2. #2

    Re: Priest Dying Problems

    Well, you've got Spell Warding so I can't be telling you "DF is Fail, get SW its bettar!" :P

    The limited info is a little harder to manage, yes. Rotface add-aggro is nothing more than a gimmick. Infact, when we had people dying, I'd always try to grab the loose little ones to pull them out myself (with Body and Soul, of course). The big one is a problem unless you're running with a Prot Paladin (preferrably one that knows what he's doing), or possibly a Frost Death Knight. The next buffs to Icy Touch will probably help out your other spec'd DK tanks, but if you're using a Warrior or a Druid, they're going to have problems for any healer to pull off, and it can't really be helped.

    For that particular problem, you could drop your points from Improved Inner Fire (giving up a little Spellpower, Blasphemy, I know : ) and pick up Silent Resolve. It'd help a little bit. Another suggestion is take a back seat for a moment, letting your partner cover a bit of slack for a moment. Spreading healing threat between members isn't necessarily a bad idea if you're having trouble there. Again, this would only help for early on and your class composition is less than ideal, but it should help a little bit.

    But.

    This is so much focus on Rotface. What other things are you having trouble with, so we could maybe address the whole problem, instead of micro-managing this one aspect?
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  3. #3

    Re: Priest Dying Problems

    Honestly... sometimes it just works out that way. We've had specific people be quite literally picked on by fights before and usually it's comic amusement. I've seen people on Putricide be the target for Malliable Ooze and Gas and Slime every single time in a single fight. It got to the point that night that we started to use cooldowns on him because there was nothing else we could do. I've seen people get Ice Tombed on Sindragosa in P3 over and over and over. As soon as they'd break out, new tomb. The game wanted her to die so badly and finally pulled it off when the last tomb came and had more health than Sindragosa did. We killed Sindragosa then /danced until the tomb killed her in celebration. Just stay alert and do you best, there isn't much more you can do. Paranoia helps.

  4. #4

    Re: Priest Dying Problems

    Since I dont have time to wade through the logs to check how you were killed, Ill just give general advice:

    1, Do some arenas and BGs (small scale BGs like WSG, not WG, AV and the like) to improve your reflex. You dont have to aim for high ranking, just somewhere around 1400. And while you are at it ...

    2, ... rebind your keys, like AD for strafing not turning. At the least, bind all your most used spells. If possible, try on mouse-over healing. Bind oh-shit spells (desperate prayer, shield, fade, PoM) to most easy to reach keys like scroll up/down, EFRQ etc.

    I was once heal lead of a 25m guild, and the above advice was exactly what I gave to every healer approached asking for help. From my own experience, most deaths boiled down to poor situational awareness and slow reflex, as your own aggroing example: a simple fade would help. PvP in general helps improving eye-hand coordination, which im pretty sure is what you are lacking.

  5. #5

    Re: Priest Dying Problems

    It is mainly a general problem i have with healing myself i reckon, i tend to blow my desperate prayer at the first sign of danger and so when it comes round to the real danger it is not available, i also like to binding heal instead of flash heal myself however this causes me to waste time looking for someone to binding heal rather than just getting a heal off on myself quickly. I fade as soon as i see any kind of aggro indication on myself but tend to hold back on flash healing myself in favor of doing a circle of healing and hoping it hits me or slapping on an instant renew. Do you think i should be more conscious of the fact i am in danger and get straight to healing myself and let the other healers pick up the slack on the raid or carry on raid healing as normal and hope i can keep myself up with the aid of the other healers?

  6. #6

    Re: Priest Dying Problems

    If you're getting aggro on the big oozes, then your ooze tank isn't doing a proper job. Noone, but the tank, should be able to get aggro on the big oozes.

    And yes, you should heal yourself if you have time. That said, if you're not on raid healing, then others ought to heal you.

    /edit: If you're raidhealing that means you should heal the raid. That includes yourself, other healers and the tanks (when needed). If you're tank healing then that is your first priority, with the raid as secondary.

  7. #7

    Re: Priest Dying Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorindell
    It is mainly a general problem i have with healing myself i reckon, i tend to blow my desperate prayer at the first sign of danger and so when it comes round to the real danger it is not available, i also like to binding heal instead of flash heal myself however this causes me to waste time looking for someone to binding heal rather than just getting a heal off on myself quickly. I fade as soon as i see any kind of aggro indication on myself but tend to hold back on flash healing myself in favor of doing a circle of healing and hoping it hits me or slapping on an instant renew. Do you think i should be more conscious of the fact i am in danger and get straight to healing myself and let the other healers pick up the slack on the raid or carry on raid healing as normal and hope i can keep myself up with the aid of the other healers?
    Abuse binding heal, cast it whenever you are at loss of HP, if you cant find a target for it go for the tanks.

    And dont worry about healers healing themselves. Have a look at logs, most healers have pretty high % of total healing on themselves.

    If you're getting aggro on the big oozes, then your ooze tank isn't doing a proper job. Noone, but the tank, should be able to get aggro on the big oozes.

    And yes, you should heal yourself if you have time. That said, if you're not on raid healing, then others ought to heal you.
    Sometimes telling the tank "you failed" and hoping for him to improve isnt the best way to deal with the problem, esp. in a 10m casual guild.

  8. #8

    Re: Priest Dying Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by hvidgaard
    If you're getting aggro on the big oozes, then your ooze tank isn't doing a proper job. Noone, but the tank, should be able to get aggro on the big oozes.
    I hear Heroic Throw has a cooldown and Feral Faerie Fire isn't really that high of threat. Those things bloody hurt. He's running with a Prot Warrior and Bear Druid tanks, which have the most problems on that fight.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  9. #9

    Re: Priest Dying Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by kronpas
    Sometimes telling the tank "you failed" and hoping for him to improve isnt the best way to deal with the problem, esp. in a 10m casual guild.
    I didn't say that. I pointed out that he's simply not doing what he's supposed to do. Expecting others to work around ones own shortcommings doesn't help at all, and unless one knows a friendly tank to provide advise, said person should seek advise on his/hers own.

  10. #10

    Re: Priest Dying Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    I hear Heroic Throw has a cooldown and Feral Faerie Fire isn't really that high of threat. Those things bloody hurt. He's running with a Prot Warrior and Bear Druid tanks, which have the most problems on that fight.
    Really, then I must know some first class offspecs that does it. More serious though, a tank doesn't die from taking a hit here and there, especially not if they have a PW:S on them (or Earth Shield). That is more than enough to keep aggro, and I don't find it to be much of a stress to heal.

  11. #11

    Re: Priest Dying Problems

    My guild uses a prot warrior and druid tank for rotface, and it's always been incredibly easy for the prot warrior to hold add aggro. Assuming they know what they're doing.

    You know, Tuskarrs Vitality to boots wouldn't hurt you. It'd actually help some. You'd move faster after all. Highly recommend it. And instead of the 50sp 20 spirit to pants, try the 50sp 30stam. When I get the infection at rotface, I immediately cleanse myself and run to the add tank. The longer you have the infection the more it hurts after all.

    For putricide, if malleable goo is your problem, just hm.. The secret to that is watching the timer for the goo. As soon as you know it's coming, run to putricide. You'll have a very very high chance of not getting hit.

    Also, if a healer dies, the raid is probably gonna wipe (Assuming you 2 heal) so you should prioritize yourself. And Desperate prayer isnt the only thing you have as an ohshit button. You also have Guardian spirit. Popping a prOm on yourself.. Shielding yourself.. But yeah =/

    Predicting damage - the right way.

  12. #12

    Re: Priest Dying Problems

    The secret to that is watching the timer for the goo. As soon as you know it's coming, run to putricide. You'll have a very very high chance of not getting hit.
    If you start circle-strafing, you'll also have a very very high chance of not getting hit.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  13. #13

    Re: Priest Dying Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    I hear Heroic Throw has a cooldown and Feral Faerie Fire isn't really that high of threat. Those things bloody hurt. He's running with a Prot Warrior and Bear Druid tanks, which have the most problems on that fight.
    Warriors do have some major issues with kiting on Rotface, but Druids are by far the best kiters on it. Even better than DKs (until 3.3.3 buffs Icy Touch threat). Faerie Fire actually causes a rather large amount of threat. It's actually used in the single target rotation by good Bears because FF causes so much threat. The only things that cause more threat are Maul (swing-timer based), Mangle and... that's it. Frost comes close with being able to IT->HB every 10 seconds and DC once every 20, but Druids still edge ahead.

    Druid > DK > Hunter > Paladin > Warrior for kiting on Rotface.

  14. #14

    Re: Priest Dying Problems

    Well, until you factor in heroic, where Freedom plays an aspect, so Paladin edges up there :P
    And the fact that Paladins can do just as much of their abilities from Ranged (although Exorcism has a cooldown. >.>)

    Though, in all honesty, I had been thinking to put a Hunter on that list, but hadn't really figured out "where".

    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  15. #15

    Re: Priest Dying Problems

    Judgement is only 10 yards, which is basically melee range. Avengers shield is a 30 second cooldown... Hand of Reckoning is by far the best taunt in game, but it only does damage when you've lost aggro. Exorcism has a cooldown and cast time. And so on. :P Oh and Freedom is nice and all, but anyone can cast it on the kiter, it's not a self buff. Paladin beats Warrior because they have two ranged taunts and AS is a shorter cooldown than HT.

    We use Hunters whenever we don't have one of our Druid tanks around because they have the best threat while at range and moving (Warlocks win if not moving). Disengage helps too. Hunters are great for the achievement as well since their range and threat production allows a decent MM to kite two big oozes at once without letting them merge.

  16. #16

    Re: Priest Dying Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    Hunters are great for the achievement as well since their range and threat production allows a decent MM to kite two big oozes at once without letting them merge.
    Care to elaborate on that? Because kiting 2 oozes at once without them merging does not make sense (to me at least). They will move towards the same point, and that means they will move closer and closer to each other unless they have a parallel movement vector. That leads to the only possible way, having one just shy of melee range and the other at max range, but they'll still not have the same direction, and thus they will get closer and closer. Wether or not they can be kept at bay for the fight I don't know, but my initial tought would be no.

  17. #17

    Re: Priest Dying Problems

    Hvid, as you get the second one to spawn, you stand between the two, but closer to one than the other. As you pass it (and hopefully have aggro), they are not directly ontop of eachother but both are following your every move. If you've done it right, with enough of a gap between them, they should never merge. I'm not sure if Frost Trap has an effect on this, however, or even if they're vulnerable to it.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  18. #18

    Re: Priest Dying Problems

    That is exactly what I mean. Since you're not running in a straight line, but a circle, the one farthest away will be in a slightly different angle. That means it's gaining on the closest one.

  19. #19

    Re: Priest Dying Problems

    They do get closer and closer together as you move, but that isn't the point. The point is to prolong the final achievement-breaking stack. Hunters have less of an issue holding aggro on both while also having the range to hit both without needing them to be dangerously close to each other. A good kiter can keep two big oozes from merging for quite a while by taking advantage the monster AI's pathing system. You can usually keep two oozes for one and a half times around the room by always running instead of straffing, then jump turning to alternate hits taking pauses when safe to take a single step backwards towards the outer wall. The mobs then over-adjust and line up better. It's similar to the old box-strafing maneuvers used to stack monsters into as small of an area as possible. The idea is the same, but it's implemented in reverse to make the route of the mob further from you cut to the outside sharper than the closer mob. It will eventually catch up, but you can buy your DPS around 20-30 seconds of extra time.

    Just keep in mind that mobs react differently based on how you move and it makes a bit more sense. They react the fastest to backpedaling and slowest to turning while running forward. Strafing is somewhere in-between. Strafing used to react the way backpedaling does now, but a 'bug' changed that. The 'bug' is most likely an intentional change to prevent exploits that can cause severe pathing errors with mobs if there are walls around.

  20. #20

    Re: Priest Dying Problems

    If I'm not mistaken your prot warrior can offtank that fight by keeping vigilance on the bear and mashing taunt on the big ooze.

    The only drawback is the -10% threat on your bear, which if it isn't an issue could be a nice solution for your problem.


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