Any real number for the new life tap?

[Cockcinelle]

Hi. Has anybody have tried the new life tap change on the ptr? Because I've read so many differents thing (some people says it will give the same amount of mana, other says its a buff, and other says it's a nerf and received less mana than the actual life tap), So i'm looking for accurate answer. I know the 3.3.3 will be released in 2 days but it's just so I can prepare and switch some stuff to make it work better.

[seam]

More mana for less health. Depending on your spellpower, ofcourse.

[harky]

You will take less damage, but the mana returned is a bit... odd. Everyone except rDPS Demo will get more if they're in proper gear (see: non-spirit gear). rDPS Demo will be getting a nerf to LT, but will still have the largest taps. That's at the high end though. Pretty much everyone at the in-between levels of gear is getting a nerf.

This is because raid buffs put someone with +0 spirit on gear up to about 450. So anyone under 2,700 SP is getting a nerf. T9+ gear easily passes this, but it will hurt people with substandard gear. It's also a rather large nerf to leveling Warlocks, though I doubt it will slow us down much.

[ComputerNerd]

Having more spirit will make it hurt more, but the extra spellpower will bring extra mana return.
This is the start of the cataclysm changes where we no longer benefit from spirit, though it still seems odd to have it still as a substantal enough stat to take into account.

[harky]

No, the issue is that if you have less than a 6:1 ratio you will get less mana than you do on live. For instance, raid buffed in my rDPS gear I have 980 spirit. I would need to average out to 5,880 SP for me to get as much mana per tap as I get on live. That's more SP than BiS 277 gear, so it's a nerf for me as Demo. Yes, I'll get more per tap than Destro, but who cares? Destro taps once every 50-60 seconds now and on movement fights they never have to tap while DPSing. Afflic still gets more from DP... so... yeah, it's more or less a nerf to the only class that needs the mana returns. I guess pDPS Demo will be happy (but still silly).

[scandore8472]

It's also a rather large nerf to leveling Warlocks, though I doubt it will slow us down much.

What are you talking about? Less damage taken by life tap is a buff to a leveling lock. The leveling game is all about survivability, not min/maxing...

[gherkin]

Net change:

Leveling:
You won't notice

PVE:
Less damage taken
Equal or Less mana gained

PVP:
Less damage taken
More mana gained

[nocturnus]

Afflic still gets more from DP... so... yeah, it's more or less a nerf to the only class that needs the mana returns. I guess pDPS Demo will be happy (but still silly).

Actually you gain slightly more mana from improved life tap now. DP scales better after some unrealistic amounts of spell power.

[Kvn]

It was in one of the announcements, they listed the coefficients. I'll find it

Now converts [ 150% of Spirit + 1490 ] health into [1490 + Spell Power * 0.5 ] mana. (Old - [300% of Spirit + 1490] health into [1490 + Spirit * 3 Mana]

So yeah, you lose half the health you currently do and get 1490+ half your spellpower back

To be clear, Dark Pact is 1200+ 96% of your spellpower - so for affliction dark pact is still far better

edit: since someone says improved is better, here's some math:

At 4000 spellpower:
dark pact is 1200+.96*4000=5040 mana
life tap is 1490+0.5*4000=3490 mana
improved 2/2 life tap is 3490*1.2=4188 mana

[nocturnus]

It was in one of the announcements, they listed the coefficients. I'll find it

Now converts [ 150% of Spirit + 1490 ] health into [1490 + Spell Power * 0.5 ] mana. (Old - [300% of Spirit + 1490] health into [1490 + Spirit * 3 Mana]

So yeah, you lose half the health you currently do and get 1490+ half your spellpower back

To be clear, Dark Pact is 1200+ 96% of your spellpower - so for affliction dark pact is still far better

edit: since someone says improved is better, here's some math:

At 4000 spellpower:
dark pact is 1200+.96*4000=5040 mana
life tap is 1490+0.5*4000=3490 mana
improved 2/2 life tap is 3490*1.2=4188 mana

From what I've seen so far LT has a base mana-return of 2400. On top of that it scales with 60% of your spell power, making it more powerful than DP. I'm not sure who's information is out-dated. We'll see tomorrow, I guess.

[Kvn]

From what I've seen so far LT has a base mana-return of 2400. On top of that it scales with 60% of your spell power, making it more powerful than DP. I'm not sure who's information is out-dated. We'll see tomorrow, I guess.

I got my numbers from the patch notes at http://www.mmo-champion.com/news-2/h...3-build-11623/

Those are the only numbers I've seen.. but I play US so as soon as it's even possible to load the world server (stuck at the loading screen) I'll figure out what they really are.

[Jathro]

How does this interact with the Life Tap glyph? I didn't see anywhere that the glyph changed.

[Kvn]

How does this interact with the Life Tap glyph? I didn't see anywhere that the glyph changed.

It doesn't change the glyph at all, though technically it makes the glyph useless for the improved soul leech spec (as you apparently don't need to life tap hardly at all anymore). If you're responding to that one guy, well you're just late lol.

[Kvn]

I just tried it in game, the formula for mana returned for life tap is now:

2400 + 0.6 * Spellpower

And the health lost is a static 2000

At 4000 spellpower:
dark pact is 1200+.96*4000=5040 mana
life tap is 2400+0.6*4000= 4800 mana
improved 2/2 life tap is 1.2*(2400+0.6*4000) = 5760 mana

So, with these new live numbers dark pact is actually worse than improved life tap.. and it takes a whopping 7000 spellpower for Dark Pact to pass Improved Life Tap. So, this is totally reachable in cataclysm, except apparently life tap gets another change in Cata so oh well.

[gherkin]

4800 mana for 2000 life, as Demonology, without a lot of trinket procs?

I'm in love.

[Ragnarokex]

4800 mana for 2000 life, as Demonology

thats at 4k spellpower? so during fight if u surpass 5k itll go up for only 2k hp cost? i need a towel

[Bakis]

Hms forgot what I had before but selbuffed with fel armor only I will now get 4700 mana from a lifetap as affliction, more if 277 Dislodged procced. Maybe time to add it to Power Auras after all. Sneak a fatass lifetap off just for the fun of it

[Goatonlb]

While I understand the need for not taking dmg Bakis, as I'm 0/12 HM's in ICC I have no idea what the raid-wide damage is like.

In normal, there's very little fear of dying due to an ill-timed tap, so much so you don't ever think about it. It's not difficult though, to tap early, or hold it till later if you know there's damage incomming (which anyone who knows the fight should).

My question is if there's constant incoming damage in the HM's so that you really don't ever want to be a liability by tapping.

[Shifto]

I just tried it in game, the formula for mana returned for life tap is now:

2400 + 0.6 * Spellpower

And the health lost is a static 2000

At 4000 spellpower:
dark pact is 1200+.96*4000=5040 mana
life tap is 2400+0.6*4000= 4800 mana
improved 2/2 life tap is 1.2*(2400+0.6*4000) = 5760 mana

So, with these new live numbers dark pact is actually worse than improved life tap.. and it takes a whopping 7000 spellpower for Dark Pact to pass Improved Life Tap. So, this is totally reachable in cataclysm, except apparently life tap gets another change in Cata so oh well.

Incorrect. The new formula for life tap at rank 8 is:

2000 + 0.5 * Spellpower

With Improved Life Tap (20%), the static number and multiplier is increased by 20% and becomes:

2400 + 0.6 * Spellpower

So Dark Pact is better than improved Life Tap starting from 3336 SP assuming the dark pact formula is 1200 + .96 * SP. At 4000SP, dark pact only returns 240 mana more.

[Jenerena]

I thought I was getting a buff. As demo I am usually in the 4k region during a fight, often over 5k if things stack (SP), and around 700 spirit...hmm.