~ POLL ~ "Giant Pulls in Heroics" Good or Bad?

[Frazzle.d]

I don't particularly see the point, it hardly ever saves any time especially when it gets borked up. There's quite a few mob bunches that are horrible to group up in large herds because of their special abilities:

- Gundrak with the riders on the rhinos that silence. Was healing this one when the tank pulled every single one and then it was touch and go whether it'd be a full wipe or not because of the charging and silencing mucking up my healing. I understand some healers like a challenge in heroics, I've been asked a couple of times on my tank to pull more or tank in more dps gear but I dislike unnecessary deaths for group pulls that took longer to clear because I was unable to heal. The stairs didn't help either so I had to stay in the range of the silences. ;(

- Halls of Lightning... jhjshfjhjfb jkhjkhag hgahhaghgehgah, that sodding last room where tanks try to group pull a bunch of adds then there's death all round as 3 dwarves whirlwind at the same time, or the big iron vrykul get 4 stacks of the poison spear on the healer. The mini gauntlet is sometimes annoying too when the tank gets counterattacked and rooted for 5 seconds or something and they go after something else.

- Utgarde Keep, with the starting mobs - seen a few tanks run in, get unlucky and get stunned a couple times in a row. Not only does this a) mean your avoidance, which in welfare t9 / t10 you grinded solely heroics for and is probably a bit lacklustre anyway, will mean diddly squat it also means b) that the dps still blindly nuking will likely overaggro and c) the healer will pull some of the aggro when the dps use aggro dumps and if the tank is still stunned or trying to grab the aggro back. Hilarity, all at the start of the instance.

Personally I normally try to go as fast as I possibly can but I try and keep an eye on mana, try and keep the pulls fairly sane and it normally doesn't take any longer than any mass herding runs do. Your mileage may vary of course.

[Orash]

Voted yes, but somehow there are tanks out there that think they can do anything and get away with it. I can tell you as a freshly dinged 80 holy pala you're in for a ride...

[Thrakos]

tank or DPS yes. considering we have an inguild challange going to see how fast we can pull instances with pugs

i think our best achivment is clearing nexus in 7 min's

[Ershiin]

Depends..

Depends on the instance.. (Zul'farrak even tho being a lowbie instance is a perfect example of where big pulls are BAD. But it goes for anything where lots of healing/CCing/running/ranged mobs is involved really.)
The type of DPS.. (Are you running with say a Hunter, Warlock, and Fury Warrior? Or Enhancement Shaman, Arcane Mage, and Combat Rogue?)
The quality of the party.. (Does the DPS interrupt and/or catch runners? Is everyone's gear up for the task?)

If its an AoE friendly instance (like most Wrath heroics really.. OK, and the trash before the second boss in ToC being the only ones i can think of that is even remotely AoE unfriendly) and people are atleast half decent, then yeah.. Giant pulls in heroics are great.

Generally i'm against them so i voted no... As a Tank I gauge each individual group's potential before running off and pulling like a madman.. Often enough I get bashed by the healer who (like me) is more than capable of handling large pulls, but seem unable to realize that the DPS isnt up for the task.
Sometimes its the DPS who complains I dont pull enough or dont pull fast enough. They do this while the undergeared healer is sitting far in the background chugging his water as fast as he can because he OOMs constantly..
However when the DPS is good and the healer seems up for the task.. Yeah I pull as much as humanly possible.
People just seem unable to grasp that large pulls doesnt always = Fast pulls.

[Erutan]

Chain-pull = Good
Mass-pull = bad
Why?
Too many risks without the possibility to correct any of them
- LoS lost between healer and tank
- Agro lost from tank due to neccesary healing and damage from tank going to new targets in his pull
- "The group is as strong as it's weakest link"... and does the tank know all of the group members?
- etc.

In chain pulling you get an short but essential evaluation of every pull (at the point where the current mobs are almost down and the next group is in sight) where a dicision is made to stop, continue or correct anything that didn't go smooth....

[macke]

If the DPs isnt as AE horny as most of them are its fine, I've had DPs starting DPsing the trash while Im pulling and dieng and just waiting for a ress.

Can you please fuckoff if your doing that.

[Nirual]

Always depends on the group setup. The ideal way would be to play it safe at first and then pull more if the tank and healer are confident about it.

It's also good to keep in mind that some mobs can screw you up pretty quickly if you get overconfident. Like the golems in HoS. Too much burst potential and stuns to handle all at once, even if you are insanely overgeared. Well, my guildmates pulled it off once, but only barely.

[Deleted]

im fairly wellgeared, 5,3k gs druid tank, so i usualy pull like 6-8 mobs and start AoEing them. i make sure the healer can handle it first ofc ;D

[LordDarkmatter]

As a Blood Dk tank, aoe threat isnt the greatest so I don't do giant pulls, maybe 2 or 3 groups max if they are close together. I do chain pull however normally if there is only 1 or 2 mobs left in the group and my D&D is rdy, I have it improved, then ill be moving to the next pack.
I do hate when dps start giving me attitude before we even start pulling, thankfully doesn't happen to often but I had 1 ret pally who felt the run wasn't going fast enough so he ran ahead and started pulling groups and was killed before even getting close to were I was tanking. That really pissed me off cause while he was off pulling he could have been doing more dps on the groups we were on and we'd have been done faster.
I do love it then when my healer just jumps into his dps spec and throws me the occasional heal between my Death Stikes, this makes the run go tons faster and everybodies happy

[Deleted]

well from the poll stuff looks like...


4/5 of the heroic group like giant pulls
1/5 of the heroic group dont like giant pulls


so its only 1 person put out so keep the giant pulls coming for the other 3 in the group \o/

[shayleen]

chain pulling, and pulling mobs in large numbers are generally a good thing, so long the group can handle it.. I was in heroic OK the other day, and the tank pulled 2 groups of the spellfingers, or spellslingers, or what they're called.. the ones who do massive damage.. tank died within 0.1 sec (as both the mobs casted the spell almost simultaneously) - that's an example of big pulling is NOT a good thing. would have been fine if just 1 of the mobs had been interrupted/stunned.. unfortunately that was not the case.

[Malania]

I prefer big pulls providing

A) The tank can handle multiple adds and has enough avoidance while we AOE

B) The Healer is geared enough to cover the slack, if the tank isn't geared enough.

If I'm healing. I don't mind chain pulls if the tank isn't geared enough for giant pulls. Mp5 being what it is I can run all day. But some pulls like Utgarde Keep, all the mobs at the entrace. Like all 15, I've had a tank try that and it was too much. I wasn't ready so didn't have pain suppression on him for it. He dropped even when I was spamming like crazy as fast as I could. Those are just pointless if it overrides his Last Stand and my healing.

[Deleted]

It depends on a few factors, but I generally favor big pulls.

1: Healer has to have sufficient gear/will
2: Dungeon has to allow giant pulls
- if dungeon does not allow giant pulls, I will swap on full DPS gear and tank like that (frost pres), doing an average of 4.5k dps overall.

I generally ask beforehand.

[Hellevad]

I'd say it's really REALLY situational.

There is no simple answer wether giant pulls are good or bad. It depends on the group, it depends on the instance and it depends on how alert the tank and healer is feeling.

Giant pulls can lead to giant fiascos if either the tank or the healer slips up. DPS as always is kinda optional. Things takes longer to die, but with overgeared tank and healer things will fall over eventually. The risk of an overgeared healer going OOM and thus letting a tank die is very slim with just 2 targets to heal.

If giant pulls are to be made, they should be made by the tank. DPS trying to "help" by bringing in extra mobs is really REALLY not helping unless specifically asked to do so. If the tank decided to leave that group over there he probably did that for a reason you know...

When I tank I prefer to start out slowish and pick up the pace when I get a feel for the group and decide the group is up to it.

[Aksor]

death = not good
alive = good