Death Knights wanting to nerf themselves....

[Deleted]

Why in gods name would u want to nerf the IT threat change? All over the official forums and on here people are acting like it really needs a nerf.
Why does it?
Who would complain that they never pull threat off you?

It doesn't affect pvp, only affects pve encounters and should help them run that little bit smoother for some guilds

Funny thing is, i havnt really seen other tank classes moaning about it, only DK's themselves, which is quite frankly bizarre

[Daxmort]

Chances are, if it's as overpowered as they say it is, someone at Blizzard will notice and nerf it anyway.

Maybe the players are just trying to get it noticed and nerfed now, before they have a chance to enjoy it (so's they don't get used to it).

[Azimon]

I actually think this is more a result of blizzard buffing the wrong skill. Icy touch doesn't really fit into any good rotation for a tank DK. Icy touch and plague strike are openers, which in my case at least, is refreshed with a single blood rune. Frost dks would much rather have two sets of frost and two sets of unholy runes for obliterates, and blood tanks would like to have the same for death strikes. Spamming icy touch whenever its up, because thats what its going to end up with.will only make your rotation half assed just because of a threath modifier on a skill thats usually just used as a ranged opener to get a disease going.

[Dapuh]

Are you using GoD as a tank? seriously?

Whatever, you do not have to use IT more often, our threat was fine without the change.

[Somerandomhobo]

I hate the new dk rotation, its boring....i hate it.

I guess i could use the old rotation, but any serious raider will tell me to stop gimping myself.

Nerf it so i can go back to my old rotation, give us something else for initial/burst threat.

Edit; Its sorta like playing a pally, no real "skill" required to hold threat, and i dont like that.

[Zao]

THe problem is: It HAS TO BE an opener which gets the threat buff, because DKs don't loose aggro because they lack sustained threat, but because they lack the opening threat.

So IT (which should be your first ability to use in 99% of the cases) was the most obvious choice for that.
GoD never really did anything more than making things easier, while not providing more threat or something than another glyph choice would bring.

IT doesn't really need to be nerfed. Only really bad tanks (or new ones in bad gear) would need to spam it.

But if something like the old S3D

VottW/LB/BSh spec should arise, which had maxed out survivability but more than subpar threat, would become viable through IT machinegunning, THEN we have a problem that should be nerfed.


Edit: Just to stress this again, if your tanking abilities are anything worth, you shouldn't be loosing threat after 1-2 ITs. And then you can return to the standard priority system. Aside from the first 10-20 seconds DK threat was always fine.

[Deleted]

THe problem is: It HAS TO BE an opener which gets the threat buff, because DKs don't loose aggro because they lack sustained threat, but because they lack the opening threat.

So IT (which should be your first ability to use in 99% of the cases) was the most obvious choice for that.
GoD never really did anything more than making things easier, while not providing more threat or something than another glyph choice would bring.

IT doesn't really need to be nerfed. Only really bad tanks (or new ones in bad gear) would need to spam it.

But if something like the old S3D

VottW/LB/BSh spec should arise, which had maxed out survivability but more than subpar threat, would become viable through IT machinegunning, THEN we have a problem that should be nerfed.


Edit: Just to stress this again, if your tanking abilities are anything worth, you shouldn't be loosing threat after 1-2 ITs. And then you can return to the standard priority system. Aside from the first 10-20 seconds DK threat was always fine.

The above is exactly right. Our opening threat was a big problem, from heroics to raids unless we had tricks/MD. Using the same rotation we always have done will result in perfectly fine threat that doesn't over agro the other tank if we are OT'ing.
If the dk player base spams IT just to do an over the top amount of threat, then blizz will nerf it, so its up to the players really to decide. But then we'll just go back to sucky initial threat gen

[Squishie]

Are you using GoD as a tank? seriously?

Whatever, you do not have to use IT more often, our threat was fine without the change.

I do, I feel no shame. I actually like the Glyph. Its not nessesery but its a handy thing to have.

Rune Strike, Disease and Vampiric blood.

On topic. My threat as blood on single target was fine, however the first few seconds I do have a slight ramp up. This change takes that issue away.

Edit: If you have to spam IT to maintain threat, you are doing something wrong elsewhere.

[Savara]

I do, I feel no shame. I actually like the Glyph. Its not nessesery but its a handy thing to have.

Rune Strike, Disease and Vampiric blood.

On topic. My threat as blood on single target was fine, however the first few seconds I do have a slight ramp up. This change takes that issue away.

Edit: If you have to spam IT to maintain threat, you are doing something wrong elsewhere.

Well as a blood tank myself, I do need 3 seconds to have aggro on a large pack because you need to cast IT, PS and then pest, but after that I never lose aggro. Yes I use D&D before I cast IT on a target, but when a good geared warrior goes cleaving and bladestorming after 1-2 seconds and then blames me for not holding aggro can annoy me a lot.

[Dreadknight]

Yeah I'm not sure why people would want this nerfed..
I mean, I'm an Offspec tank but do tank heroics and the occasional ICC10 (and the ICC25 bosses for Shadowmourne) and yeah, I have found on fights like Festergut where DPS arn't gonna stop after you taunt, this IT change will be very effective.

Say you taunt, and then get unlucky and don't get a Rune Strike proc early on, you could lose aggro. I suppose that opening with IT after the taunt (for e.g.) will greatly reduce the chance of being over aggro'd.
Ofcourse I'm only talking about single target threat, but I suppose that's all that this is going to affect

[Apostolic]

So I was one that posted on the forum that it needs to be nerfed. Nor that the initial burst threat is great, just the spam-ability of the IT makes it OP.

As I argued on here before, it needs some sort of Diminishing Return. IE that if it is spammed for more then 3 times in 10 sec, then it only does the FP threat modifier (2.0734) instead of the "Shield Slam" (x7) modifier.

Opening rotation of IT, IT, BS, BS, ITx4 and you are so far ahead in threat that you do not have to worry about threat the rest of the fight. This is even more amplified if you are a frost tank with almost guaranteed crits and higher damage modifiers.

[nucz0r]

Now the frost machine gun rotation will be very OP for threat

OBx2 BSx2 ITx6

[Ulothar]

I don't really find it wrong to buff the tanking since DKs were the ones that lacked the most in TPS compared to other tanking classes. If you consider the fact that Paladins are OP in ICC since almost every mob there is undead, warrior's TPS is generally higher than a DKs and remains only the druid class.

[Albert the fish]

they should take the threat and move it to the first tick of FF or something.
make it un-spamable

[Apostolic]

they should take the threat and move it to the first tick of FF or something.
make it un-spamable

Like I advocated, Put the extra threat on a Diminishing Return like taunts are.

First IT =100% Threat, Second = 50% threat 3rd =25% 4th = just FP threat, Make this in like a 10 -15 Sec window. Normal Rotation is about 20 Sec long.

[africangecko]

Does anyone have the "real" numbers for threat?
What I mean is, will 6xIT do a lot more threat than 3xObliterate? And by how much if it will?

[Apostolic]

Does anyone have the "real" numbers for threat?
What I mean is, will 6xIT do a lot more threat than 3xObliterate? And by how much if it will?

Yes, but then you have a lot of down time doing nothing.... unless you spec for the old Machine Gun build.

[jai151]

they should take the threat and move it to the first tick of FF or something.
make it un-spamable

This is exactly what I suggested. If you put it on IT, not only does it make GoD completely nonviable for tanks, but it doesn't solve our biggest threat issue, adds. Drop it on the first tick of FF, and you have GoD as no less viable than today and pestilence becomes a way to grab that new group (and hold them long enough to drop D&D).

[Squishie]

This is exactly what I suggested. If you put it on IT, not only does it make GoD completely nonviable for tanks, but it doesn't solve our biggest threat issue, adds. Drop it on the first tick of FF, and you have GoD as no less viable than today and pestilence becomes a way to grab that new group (and hold them long enough to drop D&D).

GoD is still Viable. As you should not be lacking for threat by the time you have to refresh diseases. But having it on the first tick of FF would indeed make AOE tanking much easier for DKs. Blood tanks would finaly have some decent snap aoe aggro.

[jai151]

GoD is still Viable. As you should not be lacking for threat by the time you have to refresh diseases. But having it on the first tick of FF would indeed make AOE tanking much easier for DKs. Blood tanks would finaly have some decent snap aoe aggro.

Well, yes, it's not a game killer to be without it (and technically, I have no threat issues now except against other tanks), but using it now loses you a threat buffer. And I didn't mean to say viable, I meant to say it makes it unattractive. Posting during breakfast is a bad idea for a non morning person.