Is it a big dps loss to make a rogue apply their version of Sunder Armor?

[fishleg]

How about getting a warrior actually? The dps loss is not so big for them, they got some free GCDs

[Hellevad]

Not replying to any post in particular, but just to say that this kind of problem arises from people trying to play against their raid instead of with them.

They don't realise that they don't get epics for personally topping the meters; They get epics when the raid as a whole kills the boss.

"Yeah dude... You topped the meter, but we hit the enrage at 2% so sorry, no epics"
"Bu.. bu.. but I topped the METERS!!!!!"

[KeyserSoze]

How about getting a warrior actually? The dps loss is not so big for them, they got some free GCDs

I've found the biggest challenge isn't getting a dps warrior, it's getting him to actually Sunder. Every time I ask warriors to do Sunders, they nearly always reply "Sunder is a threat move, it causes too much aggro."

Now, I've not played a warrior at endgame, so I don't have any insight which gives me a good counter for that statement. Any seasoned warriors out there that have a good response to that?

[Kaeyne]

The real problem here is:
How do you have a raid with 11 Physical DPS and no Warrior? Thats 14 raid slots that you could have a warrior in. (Including Tanks)

[Shaliel]

I've found the biggest challenge isn't getting a dps warrior, it's getting him to actually Sunder. Every time I ask warriors to do Sunders, they nearly always reply "Sunder is a threat move, it causes too much aggro."

Now, I've not played a warrior at endgame, so I don't have any insight which gives me a good counter for that statement. Any seasoned warriors out there that have a good response to that?

Bad warriors are bad. Sunder does cause threat, but they're not spamming it. They're getting it to 5 when the T has ToT and MD threat, and then hitting it once every ~25 seconds or so.

[Annoying]

Wrong due to how ArP work sunder will bee an even bigger dps inc @ 100% personal ArP

Not true, at 100% ArP, sunder and FF do nothing.

[necemoci]

Not true, at 100% ArP, sunder and FF do nothing.

Back at you,you are wrong,big time

How did i skip 100% part,above is totaly true

[LeperHerring]

Not true, at 100% ArP, sunder and FF do nothing.

ArP effects can be divided into two classes, personal buffs and boss debuffs. The left over armor is calculated from the following:

Let
C=15232.5
ArP_cap=A_c=(Armor + C)/3
Armor_effective=A_e=Armor - ArP*MIN(Armor, A_c)
where ArP is your personal armor penetration and Armor is the boss armor after debuffs.

Now, for a non-debuffed boss with 100% personal ArP we get:
A_c = (13083 + 15232.5) / 3 = 9438.5
A_e = 13083 - 100%*9438.5 = 3644.5

For a boss with 20% sunder debuff and 5% faerie fire we get:
Armor = 13083*(1-(0.2+0.05)) = 9812.25
A_c = (9812.25 + 15232.5) / 3 = 8348.25
A_e = 9812.25 - 100%* 8348.25 = 1464

As you can see, sunder and faerie fire will drop the effective boss armor even when your personal ArP is 100%. In fact, their combined effect is 40% armor reduction on the left-over armor.

[Grundy]

You already knew the answer, so why make the post? It seems like you just wanted some kind of agreement and maybe were hoping to put him down by making that rogue come upon this post somehow.