The new Subtlety !

[Mefistophelis]

Any of you have already tried the new subtlety tree changes ? how good are they cause most threads on wow forums were inconclusive !

thanks in advance!

[Gxz]

PvE?
PvP?

If PvE no... Many topics have been posted about this and it is bad for PvE.

PvP not sure...

[Mefistophelis]

I am asking only for PvP purposes

[Waffle]

From what I've seen so far is that it's still pretty weak, hemo still hits like a wet noodle on plate, there's a topic on it at Arena Junkies with some screenshots, apparently with the T2 wrathful dagger hemo did hit for about 1.6k average on a 800 resi warrior.

[Truform]

We had a rogue in our 25 ICC Heroic last night Sub, to increase the damage output of others via tricks spam, his damage was not as high as our mutilate rogue but topped our combat rogues damage (probably a gear difference though). But damage was not entirely terrible, plus shadowstep kick was nice for those mages on VDW :P

[Deleted]

Short awnser: No
Long awnser: Noooooooo

Subtlety sucks. Always have, always will.

[Torir]

Short awnser: No
Long awnser: Noooooooo

Subtlety sucks. Always have, always will.

did you even play in BC?

[Gxz]

Short awnser: No
Long awnser: Noooooooo

Subtlety sucks. Always have, always will.

Yeah... uhm Cheat Death ahem?

did you even play in BC?

And HAT

[Baabinator]

Short awnser: No
Long awnser: Noooooooo

Subtlety sucks. Always have, always will.

Troll

Remember HAT spec.
Remember HARP spec
Remember Hemo/SF spec in Vanilla
Remember TBC Shadowstep?
Remember the first implementation of Shadow Dance?

Problem is that they make it TOO powerful, and then nerf it into uselessness again.

[Waffle]

If they continue to gradualy scale it upwards I could see subtlety coming back, however chances are they make a few changes to show they care and then leave it be.

[DrgnDancer]

Troll

Remember HAT spec.
Remember HARP spec
Remember Hemo/SF spec in Vanilla
Remember TBC Shadowstep?
Remember the first implementation of Shadow Dance?

Problem is that they make it TOO powerful, and then nerf it into uselessness again.

Mmmm, BC Shadowstep in a leveling build.

*Stealth* *Shadowstep* *Ambush* *MoB dies* *Wait 20 sec* *Stealth* *Shadowstep* *Ambush* *MoB dies*.... Repeat until 70. Every so often something had 20% health left and had to be SSed once or twice.

[Unholyground]

The Buffs are decent for leveling builds and killing speed, it rapes in pvp if played correctly., the armor penetration just isn't there yet, they need to make hemo give like 10% armor pen only to the rogue and it might fair a bit better as a pve tree.

[amduscia]

on EJ it shows sub pve is rly showing competitive, but it requires alot more effort to manage the rotation

[Voij]

on EJ it shows sub pve is rly showing competitive, but it requires alot more effort to manage the rotation

"Hardly worth the effort" is the correct expression, iirc.

It's more fun then Combat and Mutilate, but at best only comes close to them in damage. At worst you die because of the attention it takes, second worst would be to just not be able to dish out as much as the other two.
Didn't look into it all that much, but iirc Sub can have a harder time at most fights then the other two, though I guess the movement capabilities are still quite nice on Prof. and the like. I just realised I typed that whole sentence while watching the FFXIII trailer on TV, guess I gotta get back to playing >-<

[Hendrixstorm]

I am asking only for PvP purposes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NugG3sXO2tk Did I answer the question?

[Arctanis]

I am planning on giving the sub spec a try for bgs(dont think it will get anywhere in arena)for kicks and to see how hard ambush hits for. The major downfall of the spec is that it favors daggers toward the very bottom of the tree which leaves you with the burden of positioning that you dont have to worry about for mutilate.
My money is on mut/prep still being the pvp spec to roll with.

[Mookes]

Sub will still be pretty weak, regardless of how much they thinked they buffed it. Too much burst.

[Deleted]

PvE wise, quoted from EJ:

I've been using it in our raid tonight, but don't think anyone was running WoL. Used it on Dreamwalker, Princes, Gunship, and LK. It's a dream on Dreamwalker, shadowdance cheapshots are very reliable for valks on LK, and it's just a lot easier for fights like gunship and princes. I was actually top damage done on dreamwalker, but I've been a little bit behind normal on the other fights.

[ElAmigo]

Short awnser: No
Long awnser: Noooooooo

Subtlety sucks. Always have, always will.

for everyone calling him a troll, hes isnt

hes just one of those wotlk players that thinks they know everything about the game when they dont have a clue about the extreme changes its gone through

[wannaspoon]

Yeah... uhm Cheat Death ahem?And HAT

lol cheat death is awful atm, most pvp sub rogues wouldn't even pick it up