Am I wrong in this situation?(random dungeon)

[Moistloins]

So as a general concensus of this thread... If I sign up as a tank and begin doing so as a boomkin, that's just fine and you shouldn't try to do my "job" for me. Most of you missed the fact that the "tank" wasn't even in his/her proper spec to do that job.

[Malania]

Meh, that was just ego on the tanks behalf, if you can do it better. Do it. Let him DPS. I've joined hc's with my DK, seen other classes far out geared me and I've asked if they would prefer to tank. Some have done so, some haven't. I don't mind stepping aside for the efficiency of the dungeon run.

Saying that, if he's trying to get the hang of it for future tanking you should have just let him go at his pace when he asked you to stop. But he did sound childish about it.

[Sunshine]

I know it may seem as i'm nit-picking, but it really doesn't say much for a "tank" when he can't even spec into those "defensive cooldowns". I know, i know, these are old regular dungeons, but bad habits are hard to break.

My post was directed at the one I quoted, not at the original situation. However, as far as leveling and tanking, it's very possible to tank lower level dungeons just fine as plate dps. On my DK, I was perfectly able to tank instances up to and including the intro WotLK ones as a dps spec. Just after 70, I grabbed a second spec for tanking, but it really wasn't required given the correct threat rotation and so on.

In this case, isn't that exactly what the OP ended up doing? If you accuse him of not being able to tank in a dps spec, yet someone else can somehow do that just fine, what's the difference?

So as a general concensus of this thread... If I sign up as a tank and begin doing so as a boomkin, that's just fine and you shouldn't try to do my "job" for me. Most of you missed the fact that the "tank" wasn't even in his/her proper spec to do that job.

Tanks should be capable of tanking, whatever their spec is. A boomkin is most likely not going to be able to tank; a plate dps who knows what he or she is doing will probably do it just fine, at least in old content. For content where a dps class cannot tank, they have a responsibility to be tank spec.

[Hellevad]

So as a general concensus of this thread... If I sign up as a tank and begin doing so as a boomkin, that's just fine and you shouldn't try to do my "job" for me. Most of you missed the fact that the "tank" wasn't even in his/her proper spec to do that job.

As a boomkin youd be a pretty poor tank - yes: I know that with resillience you can be crit immune bla bla bla...

A ret in protgear can do fairly decently as a tank by throwing up Rigteous Fury. Yes, he misses out on a few survivability and Snap-aggro talents, but really, for leveling content it's no biggie as long as he knows what he is doing.

Now - Knowing what he is doing does not necessarily mean going at a breakneck speed. Taking it a bit slower might actually be to adjust for the fact that he wasn't in an optimal tanking spec. I don't know, I wasn't there. In either case the OP was wrong to just step in and "try to speed things up" by taking over the tanking.

TLDR: Ret tanking can be fine. Boomkin tanking not so much.

[Moistloins]

I suppose I just long for the days when someone that was running a dungeon was actually in the spec/gear for the position that they intended to fill. My comments were more directed to those bringing up defensive cd's and/or taunts. I do agree that the OP shouldn't try to tank the instance without asking, but it still doesn't negate the fact that there wasn't a "tank" in the group.

[Hellevad]

I suppose I just long for the days when someone that was running a dungeon was actually in the spec/gear for the position that they intended to fill. My comments were more directed to those bringing up defensive cd's and/or taunts. I do agree that the OP shouldn't try to tank the instance without asking, but it still doesn't negate the fact that there wasn't a "tank" in the group.

Tanking in plate is more about gear than talents - particularily while leveling. You need a bit of Def and a bunch of stamina, but really, that's it. Threat isn't that big of an issue, you get a head start from stance, presence or righteous fury anyway.

Tanking as a druid is ALL about spec and very little about gear while leveling. You need the talents to be crit-immune since there is no def on gear. But really - mostly you just need a decent feral spec (and of course the gear to go with it).

A pally in prot gear with RF up and ret spec is still a tank. Just as a DK in Blood spec with frost presence and prot gear can be.

[SonsofDisaster]

So as a general concensus of this thread... If I sign up as a tank and begin doing so as a boomkin, that's just fine and you shouldn't try to do my "job" for me. Most of you missed the fact that the "tank" wasn't even in his/her proper spec to do that job.

Quite honestly, as a healer, if we were NOT running a heroic, I would give any person who signed up as a tank a single chance to prove their ability to me, regardless of spec. It obviously will not fly in Heroics, but I have had Arms Warriors, Retribution Pallys, a HOLY Pally, and a Kitty all tank Outland instances successfully. Sure, it won't go as quickly as a correctly specced tank, but I'm a patient guy. As long as the would-be tanker knows that he is NOT doing it the conventional way and that he will have to learn to tank correctly eventually, I am fine with letting him attempt to do the job for which he signed up. If he blows his single chance, I'll look for a proper tank.

Not trying to say that everyone should do this, as it really is a personal decision regarding with whom you choose to play. I'm just saying that getting a tank not in a conventional tank-spec does NOT mean you won't be able to complete the instance.

[davesurfer]

This is funny, people want to speed run old instances now? What happened to the "I miss the old instances where you had to CC, and take time/care on pulls"

[Cpttrips]

YUP sorry IMO you were wrong, let the tank tank, or if its to slow and painful initiate a vote kick then offer to tank if you feel the need, or next time just sign up as tank although most lvl 66-70 dk tanks scare the hell outta me personally squishy with threat issues.

not all obviously i know their are some good ones

[deadjack]

for my part I don't think you were wrong tanking a little without asking too much heal from healer, but want was wrong is the communication. If you want help group by tanking some more mob talk to your group before doing it.

same goes for hunter or rogue pulling for the tank with missdirect (missdirect after pull is already done by tank is always good)

[BuNNyRespawned]

Queue as a DPS; do the DPS.

Me and a guildie (who was the tank) did Heroic Pit of Saron with three other people from the Dungeon Finder tool today.

My guildie is a great tank, so it doesn't matter really if a lot of mobs are pulled. However, it was the healer who felt the need to pull all those mobs around Ick, along with the ambushers just before. And once Ick was down, she went to prepare to pull the next packs.

Again. Wasn't a problem, not a hard pull anyway, but I just hate when people stress the tank. I don't care whether or or not it's a hard place, it just annoys me.

If people start to annoy me, I just only use a wand through the entire instance.

tl; dr

Tanks do the tanking
Healers do the healing
DPS do the pewpew*

*Once the tank has pewpewpew'd them

[Kirri]

I suppose I just long for the days when someone that was running a dungeon was actually in the spec/gear for the position that they intended to fill. My comments were more directed to those bringing up defensive cd's and/or taunts. I do agree that the OP shouldn't try to tank the instance without asking, but it still doesn't negate the fact that there wasn't a "tank" in the group.

There was a tank. Presuming the paladin was in tanking gear he'd do just fine. I got dual spec at 73, until then I leveled tanking instances as retri with my own pocket healer. Who, btw, picked up a resto spec at 63 or so -the first few outland instances we did as retri tank/DWearthliving enhance shammy.

And back in "the old days". My outland group consisted of an arms warrior tank with me resto druid healing. I'd say before dual spec it was pretty much uncommon to see anyone in below max level instances being prot.

Start of wotlk I leveled as a resto shaman with a retridin mobkiller/instance tank, and no, he wasn't endgame geared. No problem.

Conclusion: can't take the time to wait for a slow tank? Queue as tank yourself. Otherwise suck it up.

[ILjXYZ]

As a damage dealer, I like to pride myself on being able to adapt to different tanks and their playstyles; being able to tune my play on the fly to tank that pulls methodically or haphazardly.

But, like many others have already said, pulling for the tank is not that bright of an idea.

[Bigjay]

Yes you were completely wrong.

You annoyed multiple people and in the end you think your pulling and dying and making the tank stand there really sped up your group. NO. You think the healer enjoyed getting to heal you more then the person they expected to heal. NO. I could go on for hours but ....

It's a very old saying, two wrongs don't make a right. If tank was really too slow then mention something to him instead of randomly running off and attacking something. That just makes you look stupid so why shouldn't everyone assume you're stupid and don't know what's going on and treat you that way. And in this game that way is tough love, it seems to be the very accepted teaching discipline on all realms and all occassions.

[Spartanoble]

IMMATURE group

[Jordizzle]

Some of you are saying that it was a wrong move based off of me making stupid pulls and dying

The only reason I died is because the 'tank' and healer just stood in the back watching us fight the group.

Yes you were completely wrong.

You annoyed multiple people and in the end you think your pulling and dying and making the tank stand there really sped up your group. NO. You think the healer enjoyed getting to heal you more then the person they expected to heal. NO. I could go on for hours but ....

At first he was being obnoxious about it and threw on his dps gear and started dpsing. After that is when him and the healer decided to just stay back and watch us die. I did not make him 'stand there,' he did it on his own. Also, in no way did I say I thought the healer enjoyed getting to heal me more than the person they expected.

Thanks for contributing to the thread though

[Dhurn]

If the tank is very slow, doesnt happen often for me but sometimes it will I tend to:

a. Ask him to pull faster
b. If he refuses/doesn't answer, I whisper the healer and ask if he minds if I pull (I'm a fury warrior and can take hits fairly well, esp considering the mobs die in about 10 seconds)
c. If the healer is not ok with it, I just leave and play an alt because doing a 45 minute heroic is just not my idea of a good time.

Plate classes pulling instances with slow tanks can speed things up, just need to have some communication with the healer. Also, ask the tank first to move quicker...I can't really think of cooldowns that would be necessary to wait on for tanking trash pulls. Issues like mana and a RL situation may be why they are going slow though and you should respect that.

[Halicia]

Yes you were completely wrong.

i wouldnt say he was even half wrong, as his "tank" was an ungeared ret pally.

i'd much rather take a comparably equipped 'dps' DK in frost presence over a ret pally that just "lawlfastqueue"'d and felt the need to place blame on dps for his total inability to do the role he chose to queue for.

if this were a vanilla instance, i'd say go to town. but even if the original poster wasnt all that frightened of an ungeared ret choosing to tank, BC 5mans are nothing to scoff at, especially when compared to current content, and corpse crawling is an unnecessary pain in the butt that having an actual tank would remedy.

i'd say he may have approached it wrong, but that the situation was entirely the 'tank's fault, and i would have tried to kick the tank at the first possible opportunity. (or left the group and hopped to another toon to sit out the timer)

[Argent_Templar]

The rate of pulling is completely at the tank's discretion. If he wants to pull slow, he can. Especially if he's not 80, he's probably still learning how to tank.

You should never start pulling for him, even if you can take the blows, HOWEVER he said that you should go ahead and tank if that's how you were gonna do things. At THAT point, you were made the tank and the healer shouldn't have just not healed you.

I did a heroic just a few minutes ago, I was testing out ret for the first time, and I noticed the tank we got had barely 30k buffed and everything, and it was Old Kingdom. I pointed out that if its too much for him or the healer I can tank. He pulls, we wipe, I offer again to tank, he goes into a bitchy mood and tell me to, so I did. The healer healed, me, nobody bitched and nobody died the rest of the way and we got it done in like 10 minutes.

If a tank wants to go slow he can, but if someone in the group wants to tank faster, and the currently tanking tank offers to let them tank, by all means, that faster tank is now the tank, and the healer would just have to go with it.

my sense of tense writing that was horrible, sorry.

[davesurfer]

...I noticed the tank we got had barely 30k buffed and everything, and it was Old Kingdom. I pointed out that if its too much for him ...

30K is not enough for OK? People tankled Patch in Naxx with less than 30K