So I just dropped Ret for Holy

[maligncomedy]

In the 51/20/0 spec and well I'm unsure of how to go about gearing it. First off I'd offer to give you an armory link but I'm still in my prot spec on that so its kinda useless for this purpose so I'll just list what I've done.

245 Triumph Helm
4 piece 232 t9
Protector of Frigid Souls
Splintered Icecrown Parapet
Oath of Empress Zoe + Heartmender Circle
Love's Prisoner
Sunforged Bracers
Tears of the Vanquished + Talisman of Resurgence
Plate Girdle of Righteousness
Recovered Reliquary Boots
Titanforged Cloak of Ascendancy (Just cause I couldn't get the drops available in heroics, they just weren't dropping)
And finally Libram of Veracity
-Everything is Gemmed int with the exception of one nightmare tear for the meta (Insightful Earthsiege)
-Everything is enchanted with sp

This roughly means I have around 29k manapool, 424 mana regen (340 while casting), 10.1% haste, 2.3k healing and 28.4% crit completely unbuffed (if I am wrong don't shoot me, thats all by memory). So is this enough to raid yet? Or should I go pick up Seethe (which drops crit but gives me bout a 100 spell power boost and increases my mana pool further)/Cloak of the Fallen Cardinal (it'll lower my sp but increase my crit/mana regen) first?

That being said how should I upgrade from there? If raiding is indeed an option at those stats, I can see getting a Pride of Kor'kon and such immediately but in terms of trinkets what are the Holy Paladin upgrades? And on the note of upgrades would you drop the 245 helm for a 232 t9 in order to switch the legs for Corrupted Silverplate Leggings?

[Ronark]

I can tell you that the first thing you want to do is grab the T10 2pc, preferably the Helm and Shoulders. Also, take a look at some of the crafted gear- a lot of it is very decent.

Unfortunately without an armory link it makes it hard to see how your enchants/gems are set up, etc.

[maligncomedy]

For holy is the t9 4 piece worth it? Or is it like the ret one and kinda subpar?

[Bob002]

For holy is the t9 4 piece worth it? Or is it like the ret one and kinda subpar?

It's fairly subpar.

[maligncomedy]

What about the 2piece t9 that subpar too? Cause if thats the case, logically wouldn't it be better to stack crafted items?

[Ronark]

For holy is the t9 4 piece worth it? Or is it like the ret one and kinda subpar?

It is nice for low-grade content, but often times you'll need more than a simple HoT to keep your tanks up, moreso in ICC with the damage output.

What about the 2piece t9 that subpar too? Cause if thats the case, logically wouldn't it be better to stack crafted items?

The 2pc is variable, but hardly worth it in most cases.

[AnotherPaladin]

You're ready to raid, as long as you think you have the skill for it. T10 two piece is a must, and just get a few craftables here and there. Seethe is also very nice.

[maligncomedy]

So I am assuming my holy spec is like my prot, and in fact I should have started raiding before I got to this point? (I didn't start raiding as prot till I had around 60% unbuffed mitigation, over defcapped, hit capped, expertise capped and 38k hp unbuffed)

Is the 232 belt from toc10 worth dropping my 226 2 slot belt for?

And t10 two piece looks ideal, but chances are I will only get it from vault, because I still spend frosts on my prot gear.

[Ronark]

So I am assuming my holy spec is like my prot, and in fact I should have started raiding before I got to this point? (I didn't start raiding as prot till I had around 60% unbuffed mitigation, over defcapped, hit capped, expertise capped and 38k hp unbuffed)

Is the 232 belt from toc10 worth dropping my 226 2 slot belt for?

You can get into raids a lot easily than you can as a Tank, because even sub-geared DPS and Healers (in some cases) will do fine on any non-progression encounters (Something like BQ or Sindra would be rough).

And t10 two piece looks ideal, but chances are I will only get it from vault, because I still spend frosts on my prot gear.

You didnt mention that it was an Off-spec :P

[Edeila]

Judging by your stats, your haste is terribly low, should be aiming for 650 as a bare minimum. That Lib is bad , go go iLvl 200 Naxx is best.
If your going for tier 2pc t10 is really all you need (specifically head/shoulders), t9 is useless....so...soo...useless.

My mini, how to holy pally, or things I look for when looking at apps.

Spec (holy/prot)
- do they have the two points for SS (Divine Guardian)
- are they picking up things like Unyielding Faith, Pure of Heart (pve no no's)
- things that can both ways like imp LOH over 2/5 in Benediction can be ignored for the most fact, as can things other pallies can pick up.
Glyphs
- do they have Beacon/Wis/Holy Light or FOL/Light/Beacon?
- do they at least have the minor for LOH glyph
Gear
- is everything gemmed 20Int with 1 10stat/ 23sp + 10stat
- is their haste above at least 650
- do they have the proper lib. (iLvl200 Naxx HL, or the Pvp one going to the spec)
- TRINKETS /cast enrage , Do they at least have Resurgence Talisman/ 5 NORM TOC (upgrade-able Heroic Solace > Meteorite Crystal > Norm Solace > Pandora's Plea) for HL spammer or two Solid SP ones for FOL.
- do they have the best enchants for the spec - HL spammer can go for SP on weap/bracer its relativity minor, but things like 21 sp to bracer over 30 is bad.

Other things that can be passed on is Tuskaar, since it more or less for people with high movement - ICC raiders!. If they don't do it, its a tad redundant to have. Professions are meh, unless your apping to places
FTR : FOL is not a viable ICC raiding spec, urghhh. But it is a way of playing <_<; haha

Prio on stats is Int>Haste>MP5=Crit>SP
Goal is 650haste, INT INT INT INT INT in terms of gearing Haste/MP5 being best, the Haste/crit , then crit/mp5

[Ikaros]

If this person as asking for help, why hasn't anyone encouraged him to change his spec?

Going 20 points down prot is a big waste of talents.
Besides getting some extra dps buffs for your raid, you also get 8% crit from ret.

As far as gearing for it, there are 2 ways you can go. You can be the FoL spammer pally, or the Holy Light spammer pally. Most pallies are the holy light spammers. For that, gem for int and also gear for int. mp5 and sp wont be as important as intellect. The idea of a holy light spammer is to get as much int as possible, (which gives you mana, SP, and crit) so your mana pool will be so huge you'll never go OOM. And the reason you dont worry about spellpower is because Holy Light is so big of a heal, that more spell power will just make more over-healing.

On the other side of the scale, Flash spammers go for SP. The idea there is to make your flash of light huge and quick, so you will never have to use holy light. And since flash is a small enough and quick enough heal, the spellpower will actually help there.

[maligncomedy]

Technically its my primary spec, but in reality, it'll probably act like my off spec. My guild/friends often need tanks for their raids, and I just go in as my prot set which has been getting more geared as a result. Only recently did my guild manage to obtain some a few new warrior tanks and a good feral tank so I now have this option of working on a spec I would like to try. Generally speaking I enjoy healing much more then tanking.

For pugs on the realm I play its often hard to get in period. Gearscore has overrun the server and now, we have things like 4.8k gs min for naxx, 5 to 5.1k for toc10, so unless I'm raiding with the guild its a pain in any encounters period.

[Ronark]

If this person as asking for help, why hasn't anyone encouraged him to change his spec?

51/20/0 is the "preffered" spec, because of 3 reasons:

1.) The value of crit has hit the bucket
2.) You can pick up Imp SS and DS/G
3.) FoL spamming is not viable in TotC/ICC

Yes, in theory, the 8% crit is better, but in this current version of the game its almost mandatory to go 51/20/0

[maligncomedy]

I'm hoping to ICC raid with my holy spec, so the ret spec talents are kinda bleh to me. I don't think I could put my faith in that.

[Bob002]

If this person as asking for help, why hasn't anyone encouraged him to change his spec?

Going 20 points down prot is a big waste of talents.
Besides getting some extra dps buffs for your raid, you also get 8% crit from ret.

As far as gearing for it, there are 2 ways you can go. You can be the FoL spammer pally, or the Holy Light spammer pally. Most pallies are the holy light spammers. For that, gem for int and also gear for int. mp5 and sp wont be as important as intellect. The idea of a holy light spammer is to get as much int as possible, (which gives you mana, SP, and crit) so your mana pool will be so huge you'll never go OOM. And the reason you dont worry about spellpower is because Holy Light is so big of a heal, that more spell power will just make more over-healing.

On the other side of the scale, Flash spammers go for SP. The idea there is to make your flash of light huge and quick, so you will never have to use holy light. And since flash is a small enough and quick enough heal, the spellpower will actually help there.

No, it's not a "big waste of talents". Some specs are used due helping the raid more than the individual (which is what holy/ret spec does). There are so many good talents, and with the value of crit for a holy paladin having effectively tanked, there isn't much incentive for one to use the ret subspec anymore. I wish they hadn't changed DS/DG as it was an amazing source of damage mitigation on the right fights.

[Samius]

If this person as asking for help, why hasn't anyone encouraged him to change his spec?

Going 20 points down prot is a big waste of talents.
Besides getting some extra dps buffs for your raid, you also get 8% crit from ret.

http://www.wow-heroes.com/index.php?...de&name=Protek

You better go tell Ensidia, they must be doing it all wrong.

[kenneth044]

If I am not mistaken, then the 8% extra crit gained from ret is worth roughly 1,1k mana pr. minute (if you spam HL constantly (and in my current gear, I have a 1,23 sec cast time)), but considering you lose 5% extra healing, improved SS, 6% healing 'aura', 6% damage reducement. I would say it's not worth it what-so-ever, to spec ret instead of prot.