New to PVP as Prot...help!

[jcebul56]

OK so i decided that with how fast were raiding i have a lot of free time on my hands atm. So i figured i would start to pvp for fun and something to do. Been hearing a lot that prot is OP atm for PvP so I was hoping to get suggestions from you guys on how to build a proper prot pvp set and so forth

[iflame]

OP, naw, a lot stronger then ret though if you play it properly in the right comp.
First thing to prot is ret gear, pvp gear, with a shield and sword. Gem pure str other then sovereign dreadstone in blue when you can go for socket bonuses. Enchant normal ret enchants.
Comp does matter when playing as a ret, you will have most success in 5s and 2s IMO and from my experiences. 3s is not where prots or rets shine.
Avengers shield cc train = win
Thats about All I know about prot, your gunna have to wait for someone who plays it more then me to answer in.

[Shornaal]

Remember to get a SLOW onehander.

[Lumidar]

Remember to get a SLOW onehander.

how does this help you exactly??

i'd think a fast weapon would stack SoV faster...

[phrash]

Prot pvp tends to have good burst capabilities and since it's a bit harder to kill a prot pally (debatable, w/e) you can wear more pve gear.

I'm not sure whether Shornaal is correct; yes I see a lot of slow one handers but I'm trying to find a skill that uses the weapon damage instead of the weapon dps and am failing. Mostly slow one-handers are used because the only one-handers you can obtain are slow.

You also need as much strength as you can get, like iflame said, due to http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=53592 . Spell power definitely buffs your damage.

Yep, that means find some other non-pvp strength back, neck, and rings would be the way to go. And most likely greatness. Too bad there's no non-tanking strength one-handers.

Another big helper is the 2 piece T10 tanking set bonus (I'm sorry moderators I didn't wanna bring in another T10 discussion ) 20% more damage on hammer is pretty huge. I rarely see any highly rated prot pvpers without the 2 piece t10 tanking bonus :-\

Someone with more prot pvp experience should be able to help you more. I tried it for a while but ended up going back to ret because I kinda sucked at it. Maybe I can blame it on having too much gear without the strength stat or the lack of 2 piece T10 bonus. :'(

[ile371]

Glyph of Avenger's Shield is vital. Without it you're useless. Also using Divine Plea is the key not to go OOM.
Glyph of Shield of Righteousness helps with the OOM thing.

You want SLOW weapons because HotR uses main hand damage not DPS, if you're using a weapon slower than 2.6, you're ruining your hotr's dmg and eve 2p t10 won't help with that.
2p t10 and a slow wep and your hotrs hit like trucks.

[Piscesthepally]

The SoV libram and DMC greatness or Death's choice(preferably) are imo mandatory. Also PvE rings and Neck with strength.

[Aedh]

I'm not sure whether Shornaal is correct; yes I see a lot of slow one handers but I'm trying to find a skill that uses the weapon damage instead of the weapon dps and am failing.

Read Seal of Command and Seal of Vengeance.

[Shornaal]

Weapon speed is relevant because of SoC, with a slower weapon it hits harder... on a stationary target it might be similar, but in PvP where everything moves hitting hard the few times you can it's better. HoR has nothing to do with that because it goes with DPS and not weapon damage.

I'm not an expert at all, just did some research because i'm trying Prot PvP these days. I do honestly not understand why someone talks about SoV... stacks are slower damage in a world where burst>everythingelse, and if you're kited/cc or your target gets dispelled it's useless. SoC gives more initial burst, mana back when glyphed and that sexy AoE feeling (amazing in battlegrounds).

If a skilled/experienced Prot PvPer could come here and help it would be much appreciated, i have some questions too. I know Synthaxx enjoys it, maybe the topic subject will lure him here

EDIT: I logged off with PvP spec and equip (click sig to get armory), i'm open to suggestions. Please note i started gearing for pvp only a few days ago, i miss 2x Furious and i plan to switch legs from prot to ret, i don't have enough emblems to try 2x prot T10. Apart from that i'm not sure if i should get a PvP ring, and if the PvP cloak is better than Saronite Gargoyle Cloak. Oh, i think i should replace WFS with a Greatness card (have both).

[SoulPoetry]

- slow 1h obviously.
- as for seals, i'm not sure, i've seen SoV (for tunnel visioning) and SoR. SoC can break your CCs, etc, in 3s but if you're in a faceroll cleave team i don't suppose it matters.
- strength strength strength. it makes Prot OP over Ret as it gives you block value and SP as well as AP. get your ret pvp "tier" and then your neck, back, wrists, belt and rings should be strength based, greatness won't hurt either. gem strength too.
- resi offpieces gimp your damage (and spells) by comparison due to the lack of strength, if you have them, you might as well go ret.
- spec, again, not sure but it's easy to go to arena junkies and find one.

[Aedh]

I'm not an expert at all, just did some research because i'm trying Prot PvP these days. I do honestly not understand why someone talks about SoV... stacks are slower damage in a world where burst>everythingelse, and if you're kited/cc or your target gets dispelled it's useless. SoC gives more initial burst, mana back when glyphed and that sexy AoE feeling (amazing in battlegrounds).

You still stack SoV fast with a slow one hander, but I only really do WG pvp wise.

[Liquid_Beaver]

There is a LOT to be said about Prot in BGs and even more about it in Arena, but let's see what we can do.

First off, my armory.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...cn=Metrobeaver

A few notes:
My spec is something I am working with. I will link what I think is a beginning ProtRet spec later.

Glyphs are pretty straightforward. AS glyph should NEVER be passed over. You won't succeed at ProtRet at higher levels without it, unless you make it into a 5's cleave team where putting single target pressure out isn't as important. Other glyphs of note are Shield of Righteousness/Judgement/Seal of Command. My preference is ShotR glyph because it brings it down to roughly 56 mana to cast, which is REALLY nice to have when you spend much of your time OOM.

Like people have said, a slow one hander is very nice to have. Recount has shown me that because of Reckoning procs and extra seal damage, quite often in arena my melee attacks are in the top 2 or 3 damaging attacks I do, ahead of even Avengers Shield or my seal damage.

I won't dwell on gemming. All but two should be Strength gems, and those other two should be purple for the meta gem, if you go with 21 Crit 3% crit damage. I have tried to spell reflect meta, and while it causes quite a few funny and clutch reflects, I might get 5 reflects in 1 game and not get another for a week.

I chose to run the 2 piece t10 for 2 reasons. First being that I already had it from PvE, and second being like people have said, with all the CC/Fears/Slows/LoS you want to make the few seconds you spend standing on someone to count that much more, and the set bonus does a nice job of doing that. With Seal of Command and Reckoning up, I have personally run up to someone in arena and only pressing HotR, getting my Seal damage/Hammer/autoattack/and the second reckoning swing all to land at roughly the same time and doing anywhere from 8k-13k damage, all in "one" swing. Follow that with shieldslam and AS and you have got quite some burst.

I know I am way over PvP hit softcap. I am replacing Supremacy with Greatness during Darkmoon Faire on Sunday. The Use on that trinket is nice, but it seems to get wasted more often then not with all the CC/fears/slows being thrown around.

Divine Plea is your BFF Jill. It can’t be removed through any means other then it falling off on its own, and all you have to do to refresh it is a melee swing. This makes staying on someone that much more important, or when you can’t stay on them, swing at their pet. If they don’t have a pet, swing at their partner for the time being. If you can’t do that, run faster!. As far as I know swinging at a bubble or iceblock does not refresh DP, but I could be wrong.

I prefer to seal twist between SoComm and SoV. The SoV is a great buff to AP and SP (through TbtL). For nearly all of our damaging attacks we get the same damage coefficient modifier for SP that we do for AP, so depending on the spell 1 SP = 1 AP (if I remember right the coefficient is .40%) . SoComm is untouchable for cleave damage, but depending on the situation you may spend a great deal of your time trying to keep rogues and druids out of stealth or chasing people around poles, and dot ticks are nice filler damage. It is also possible to have the buff from Libram of Valiance up at the same time as Seal of Command with use of seal twisting. The only real drawback to it is it’s mana cost, which is why twisting doesn’t fit every situation. It doesn’t take long to crater your manapool and your match by spending too much mana on seals when it’s not optimal. Try it out when you can sit on a holy pally for a while.

Seal of Justice is also nice, but with Reckoning and sharing a diminishing return with Hammer of Justice, my average uptime before going immune to stun is about 8 seconds, which may or may not be the most helpful thing. Often it has helped me keep resto druids who are already low from getting off their big heals while I try to fight through the HoTs, but it is also a chance to proc so it can’t be relied upon either. Switching away from a damage seal is a huge loss to DPS, so keep that in mind.

In BG’s I find one of two things happening, depending on your gear. You will either get focused and have no killing blows but a lot of damage done, or someone will see you are prot and heal you, and you can sit in the center of a pack of enemies and end the game with 5x the damage done and killing blows anyone else has.

ProtRet has arguably the hardest time mana managing in PvP of any class. I can go from 100 to 0 mana in 4 heals or about 8 seconds of fighting with no DP. Ret because of Replenishment is QUITE a bit longer than that. This is something to keep and mind and focus on right off the bat. Outside of a bunch of casters, if we can stay in melee range we can keep up Sacred Shield, judge Light, and pretty well keep ourselves alive through most 1v2’s and even 1v3’s or more, but that all depends on keeping up our mana.

If you choose to arena, there are quite a few comps where you can succeed. It is rough, especially having never played Prot in PvP before, but it is a lot of fun, which is the only thing that matters. Most any team that does well with a Ret pally can do well with a ProtRet. Last season I got to 2k with an Unholy DK (Unholy Blight buffs ALL our damage by 15%, plus they crank out a bunch of damage on their own). This season I am trying out a frost mage with, so far, very good results considering. I have heard of people with a lot of success with Enhancement Shaman, Rogues, Ele Shaman, and just about any healer if you like 40 minute games.

As a frame of reference, here is a guy from my server in a lot better gear who has been successful with ProtRet this season. I’m unsure of his comps but you can just check his teams.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...onde&cn=Dernos

Take note of the amount of unbuffed AP and SP he has, and what that did to his mainhand weapon damage on the character sheet. Also look at his level of Strength compared to mine, and the effect it had.

I could talk about things like this forever, and I’m sure Chronalis (YOU WILL ALWAYS BE CHRONALIS….FO’ EVA!!!) could too, but that seems to cover most of the basic stuff. It’s all about experimentation, and one of the great things about ProtRet is it gives you TIME to experiment in fights. No one can really get close to globalling you if you have even 500 resilience, and that gives you the time needed to slow down and evaluate fights and see why you are losing them or winning them. This is akin to the difference break 1k+ resilience does for high level players, the resilience warrants them the time needed to react to what’s going on.

Also just have fun, ProtRet is the most fun I have ever had in PvP or Arena hands down. Enjoy it.

[Shornaal]

I was thinking about 2x prot T10. With it you get 20% more damage on one of your abilities, i agree it's nice. But you lose 150ap and 1s on judgements from 4x PvP set, some resilience, str and a nice chunk of crit... i'm not sure it's that worthy.

4x PvP set and 1x ret T10 sounds good to me, i'll try it these days since i can't get 2x prot T10 for at least one more week.

Btw thanks beaver for the nice tips

[Tialla]

a real good prot / ret from my server

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...th&cn=Noskilzs

as u can see he uses the corr libram, i think thats the main reason for using this seal, 200 str proc is almost always up and it improves ur sotr and hotr dmg which is def a lot more imp than ur seal dmg. he also stacks block value through the t9 items and certain enchants, obviously for larger sotr hits. plus the 2 set gives 5% more dmg for hotr.

I very much enjoy pvp as prot its fun to chain a silence into a stun, into another silence (BE racial) and kill healers / casters.

[kranko]

Glyph of Avenger's Shield is vital. Without it you're useless. Also using Divine Plea is the key not to go OOM.
Glyph of Shield of Righteousness helps with the OOM thing.

You want SLOW weapons because HotR uses main hand damage not DPS, if you're using a weapon slower than 2.6, you're ruining your hotr's dmg and eve 2p t10 won't help with that.
2p t10 and a slow wep and your hotrs hit like trucks.

beeeeeeeeeeeep wrong! Go and check the talent again! "Causing 4 times main hand damage per second as holy damage." That means that it doesnt matter if you got a fast or slow weapon considering HoTR. Though you should use a slow main hander because of reckoning and considering burst!