Ferocious Bite

[teddabear]

I think this ability is currently broken. I am in approximately BIS non-hardmode gear and the calculator gives me the following.

Rip DPE: 2513
Ferocious Bite (35 Energy) DPE: 730

The risk of doing a FB is substantial, to get so little reward for it is not good game design. To take such a risk when the reward is only 400 DPS, if you pull off 1 per minute with with no decrease in uptimes is rarely worth it. Now we know Blizzard will not increase FB damage because of PvP but what could and should be done is to lower the energy cost to bring it inline and redesign Feral Agression to lower energy cost further. We've already known Feral Agression is considerably underbudget. Not that Blizzard considers it a huge deal if talents are overbudget or underbudget but here is a way to fix multiple problems that should be a win/win situation for everybody. Decrease FB to a flat 25 energy and change Feral agression to reduce FB cost by 2 energy per point.

Pros:
Feral finally gets rid of the energy conversion they have hated for so long.

FB becomes a good ability without making it a clone of a Rogue ability.

FB becomes a viable finisher. In my gear it would change to.
Rip DPE: 2513
Ferocious Bite (15 Energy) DPE: 1705

No more QQ about huge FB's in PvP. Well there will always be QQ about everything but FB will hit for less in PvP.

Cons:
None that I can think of.

[Jimbo2345]

No more QQ about huge FB's in PvP. Well there will always be QQ about everything but FB will hit for less in PvP.

Could you explain how this would lower the damage it does for PVP - http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=48577

I have a feral druid which i use as my PVP Character and can't get my head round how a lower energy cost would affect the damage or maybe i'm missing something imporant. Feel free to point it out so i can see...

[spuddz]

If its to my understanding, it WONT lower PvP damage but increase the overall DPS gain in PvE.

With this idea what would happen is that Feral Druids can get FB's off with the lower energy cost whilst keeping maximum uptime of other things meaning overall DPS increase and making FB less a risk of using.

But this is just how i read the OP's post, i myself dont play a feral druid but find them very interesting. Dunno if im right or not though =/

[Nenaunir]

What he wants to do is change two different things.

1. Change the Feral Aggression talent so that instead of increasing FB damage it actually decreases the energy cost of FB.

2. Remove the scaling of FB with extra energy, but instead give it a static energy cost of 25.

Is you make this change a FB won't be able to hit as hard anymore in pvp, becausae you can't use up more stored energy to do 1 big FB, while also making using FB in a pve rotation easier and more rewarding because there's a higher Damage per Energy used.

FB would actually do less damage as it does currently if you remove the 40% FB damage increase from feral aggression, but because you also lower the energy cost by 60% and remove the chance of using extra energy it becomes less problematic to use in your rotation. Currently the extra energy from using FB above 35 Energy has even lower DPE and as such the ability is weak.

[spuddz]

oh ok, as i said i dont play a feral druid and i was just writing what I thought he meant. My druid is resto/boom but i saw this and looked at it because Feral has Always interested me =D thankyou for the clarification.

[4yBaK]

The most problem of FB changes is that this ability is about PVP.
If they remove the energy to damage conversion - then it becomes less bursty and a lot of whining PVP cats will appear
If they reduce it cost/increase damage - then it becomes more bursty and a lot of whining clothies will appear.

I think the right way is to:
1) Add to 2t10 something like "remove energy to damage FB conversion and decreases FB cost by 10".
2) Add to Feral aggression smth like "FB has 20/40...100% chance to increase current SR duration by 2 * CP's seconds". It would make FB way more usefull and must part in our rotation. Also it removes stupid and useless disputes about "How much points to put in Feral Aggression???".

[Alski]

FB would actually do less damage as it does currently if you remove the 40% FB damage increase from feral aggression,

You will find that FA only gives +15% to FB damage not +40%

[garly22]

I have come to find that i am pulling my highest dps (in ICC 25 norm/heroic) where i completely remove FB from my rotation untill the last 2-3% of the bosses HP. MY personal best on saurfang is 13.1k with 1 ferocious bite, and ~95% upkeep on rake rip and SR.

^But that is beside the point and on a PVE basis.

PVP i rarely pvp as feral, yet i have come to find that FB can be the game changer when you hit a resilienced up target for 10k.

I think you are definitely right, the ability is too costly when it comes down to being included in your average rotation. both pvp and PVE. I do like the idea of reducing the energy cost though through talents.

[littlepiggy]

if they changed ferocious bite they would have to lower something else's damage, or we would do way to much damage in pve. maybe in cata we'll get a change to it

[Melonberry]

And yet at 730 dpe, it's way better than hitting shred again, since shred is about 350 dpe.

I have come to find that i am pulling my highest dps (in ICC 25 norm/heroic) where i completely remove FB from my rotation untill the last 2-3% of the bosses HP. MY personal best on saurfang is 13.1k with 1 ferocious bite, and ~95% upkeep on rake rip and SR.

You might just not be that good. I pull about the same dps with aprox 10 times the fbs, and if you have icc heroic gear (or even full icc gear) you're better geared.

I'm sure there's a sweet spot, but I know it's not 0.

[teddabear]

if they changed ferocious bite they would have to lower something else's damage, or we would do way to much damage in pve. maybe in cata we'll get a change to it

It's a 15% decrease to FB damage and a 1.5% increase to PVE DPS. I think that's a win/win for everybody.

[Tharkkun]

I have come to find that i am pulling my highest dps (in ICC 25 norm/heroic) where i completely remove FB from my rotation untill the last 2-3% of the bosses HP. MY personal best on saurfang is 13.1k with 1 ferocious bite, and ~95% upkeep on rake rip and SR.

^But that is beside the point and on a PVE basis.

PVP i rarely pvp as feral, yet i have come to find that FB can be the game changer when you hit a resilienced up target for 10k.

I think you are definitely right, the ability is too costly when it comes down to being included in your average rotation. both pvp and PVE. I do like the idea of reducing the energy cost though through talents.

You can afford to lose a couple ticks of rip or rake to squeeze a 5 point FB in. Balance out a 25-30k crit over a 4-5k crit from rip/rake and it's an increase.

[teddabear]

Actually I forgot to include the reduced damage in my calculations which would essentially cancel out the extra energy so any change in PvE DPS would be so small as to be imperceptible. It's hard to be exact due to estimating clear casts, but I believe the net change would be between +1% and -1%.

[Biznick]

I think this ability is currently broken. I am in approximately BIS non-hardmode gear and the calculator gives me the following.

Rip DPE: 2513
Ferocious Bite (35 Energy) DPE: 730

Did you realize that Rip DPE is so ridiculously high because of 2pc T10? If you were to remove the 2 set bonus Rips DPE would be 1684, and likewise if you were to multiply shred by its reciprical its DPE would be 971.

FB DPE is better than shred, but it scales horribly when used with anything more than 35 energy. If anythings, thats the only problem with it.

All in all though I personally think current FB is fine. Rip is intended to be our highest DPE ability, just as FB is intended to be an acute burst of damage and not our pirmary finisher, just a filler.