1. #1

    Retail wow is all about the Destination, Classic wow is all about the journey.

    So I think we should have a discussion about wow...

    Specifically about a statement I read on youtube which actually made me realise what is wrong with both classic and with modern wow..

    "Retail wow is all about the Destination, Classic wow is all about the journey."

    If you really think about this... It's right. In Classic wow levelling is the main part of the game, once you hit max level, you get pre-raid bis, then log in once or twice a week to raid... And that's it there's nothing else to do.

    Most of the time players spend in Classic is either levelling or PVP and it's because most of classic has no end game other than raiding.

    Retail on the other hand has basically no coherent levelling experience, specifically for new players. You finish exiles reach, forcefully go to BFA content and start being called the hero of azeroth... Then half way through one zone of quests you get to 60 and get told that a new threats emerged and you should now be going to the dragon isles....

    This creates a feeling where the journey means nothing and it's just about getting to end game as fast as possible to farm raids, M+, world quests, and soon delves.

    Retail at end game though has a TON of content, there's lots of story, world events, loot.. more...

    So overall... what exactly can be done about the feeling...

    The least popular options would be to purge old content and make levelling take longer.

    However I think I have a better solution..

    Brand new players who have never touched wow before (so brand new accounts) will follow a linear story quest line that that will take them through a set of quests that leads up to a final encounter, at the end of which.. they will face down with a raid boss with a fully AI controlled 10 man raid group. And they will go through each expansion from the years and do the same end of expansion encounters that we have all done before.

    So you'd fight Cthun (or KT) -> Kil'jaeden -> Arthus -> Deathwing -> Garrosh -> (skip WoD) Gul'Dan to get the illidan story -> Sargeras -> N'Zoth -> and then The Jailer.

    Experiencing an abridged story for each before you kill them. It would take quite a bit longer than normal levelling but players can choose not to do this and just speak to chromie or something to get back.

    Personally I think they should just remove content but that's a personal thing and I think too many people would get angry at that for some reason.

    Also I want to point out that I don't think players should have that much power when it comes to levelling a new character.. Either level it or buy a boost.. I would rather wows story made sense, was told well and was engaging rather than giving players the power to turbo level characters. If you don't want to level in an RPG... imo find another game.

  2. #2
    I'm fine with new players getting a more logical story and taking a bit longer to level.
    But jesus christ don't make me go through it for every god forsaken alt I create. Current dozen hours to level cap is just fine.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynexia View Post
    If you really think about this... It's right. In Classic wow levelling is the main part of the game, once you hit max level, you get pre-raid bis, then log in once or twice a week to raid... And that's it there's nothing else to do.

    Most of the time players spend in Classic is either levelling or PVP and it's because most of classic has no end game other than raiding.
    In classic, essentially the only content is levelling, therefore the majority of what you do is levelling.

    In Retail, Blizz have added significantly more content than just levelling, and so people desire to do that content, and levelling gets in the way of that.

    There is literally no way of solving this, because players will always want to skip any roadblocks in front of them to start participating in the content that their friends are doing.

    I suppose you could remove all the endgame content they're traditionally added in expansions, but then the game would just die, so........yay?



    To more succinctly respond to the thread title: Classic is only about the journey because there is no destination.
    Last edited by Stickiler; 2024-01-02 at 11:40 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Addiena
    Whats the saying .. You have two brain cells and they are both fighting for third place !

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    I'm fine with new players getting a more logical story and taking a bit longer to level.
    But jesus christ don't make me go through it for every god forsaken alt I create. Current dozen hours to level cap is just fine.
    Indeed, never make story mandatory, especially outdated story. FFXIV gets away with it because it's essentially a single-player RPG with multiplayer content, and lets you play all 'classes' on one character - neither of which I'd want for WoW.

    As an optional levelling path, yes, it'd be a great idea. I first got introduced to the concept via Taliesin's "Path of the Curator" video (which takes an expansion-based approach instead of doing the whole story) but I'm sure it's been talked about before and after.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickiler View Post
    In classic, essentially the only content is levelling, therefore the majority of what you do is levelling.
    QFT
    But your duty to Azeroth is not yet complete. More is demanded of you... a price the living cannot pay.

  5. #5
    I think it's an incredible idea. They created Exiles Reach, which was cool, but then when you're done, they just dump the player in a capital city and it's not clear where or why I'm here, why I'm being shoved into BFA, what all this old stuff is about, etc.

    For brand new accounts, they should make the whole 1-60 leveling experience the story of WoW for the past 20 years, going through all the expansions, etc, and THEN plopping us down at the Dragon Isles. Then as part of each new expansion, they just add on to that system.

    They can even make it as a option for existing players to play through as well.

    It would probably be a TON of work though, but it would really be neat.

  6. #6
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynexia View Post
    "Retail wow is all about the Destination, Classic wow is all about the journey."

    If you really think about this... It's right. In Classic wow levelling is the main part of the game,
    You mean basically the only part of the game? Aside from raids and PvP... there's really nothing to do in the endgame of Vanilla/Classic WoW. I mean, sure, you can do Scholomance and Stratholme ad nauseum until you reach exalted with the Argent Dawn rep, and grind-grind-grind the Timbermaw rep, but those are more optional stuff and the best crafting stuff they offered was below Molten Core level, IIRC. There's no story to progress anymore and, most importantly, there's no more repeatable side activity you can do to help progression (such as catch-up gear, mythic+, and the upcoming Delves).

    Brand new players who have never touched wow before (so brand new accounts) will follow a linear story quest line that that will take them through a set of quests that leads up to a final encounter, at the end of which.. they will face down with a raid boss with a fully AI controlled 10 man raid group. And they will go through each expansion from the years and do the same end of expansion encounters that we have all done before.

    So you'd fight Cthun (or KT) -> Kil'jaeden -> Arthus -> Deathwing -> Garrosh -> (skip WoD) Gul'Dan to get the illidan story -> Sargeras -> N'Zoth -> and then The Jailer.
    Let's not add features that will basically only serve as roadblocks to people's leveling, okay? At least, I'm assuming you want those fights to offer a challenge? Leveling isn't supposed to be a challenge in WoW. Never was, likely never will. Because the 'meat' of the game, its 'main dish' is the endgame. The leveling is just the 'entrée'. And, just like entrées that are not supposed to fill you up before the main dish, so is the leveling not supposed to offer you a challenge until you reach the endgame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickiler View Post
    To more succinctly respond to the thread title: Classic is only about the journey because there is no destination.
    Oh, that is the absolute truth right there.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  7. #7
    As I posted earlier;
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    That's one of the reasons why I'll always advocate for reinventing the game. Starting from scratch, rewriting the lore, different quests, different storylines, different factions, different experiences from level 1 on up...keeping you interested, curious, invested in the story...your story, and curious about the next zone. A dynamic that changes with race and class.

  8. #8
    Herald of the Titans czarek's Avatar
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    Both were alywas about destination and real game started over max level. Leveling back than in vanilla was just a chore.

  9. #9
    How is progressing through the endgame not a journey?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Leveling isn't supposed to be a challenge in WoW. Never was, likely never will.
    People keep forgetting that when Vanilla WoW came out, it was the casual MMO, at least during levelling. Previous MMOs made you grind mobs to level, with minimal quests available, and took away XP on death, to the point that you could lose entire levels. In WoW, you have quests available at every level range (even though you had to travel to or search for them at points)
    But your duty to Azeroth is not yet complete. More is demanded of you... a price the living cannot pay.

  11. #11
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    "Game vs. Game" type threads don't tend to produce much in the way of constructive discussion or debate. Closing this.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

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