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  1. #1

    Is it time to return to 12 classes instead of 36 mini-classes?

    I think that attempting to create 36 unique mini-classes was one of the biggest mistakes of Legion.

    1. Development resource cost - 36 sets of talent trees, 36 sets of legendaries, 36 sets of artifacts, 36 sets of class abilities etc. Way too ambitious on the development side and the final product suffered with unfinished specs, imbalanced specs and almost non-functional specs. Too many development resources devoted to this and not enough to refining the game and acting on feecback prodivded by the community.

    2. Opposite of class fantasy - this attempt at trying to make each spec unique has only made the situation worse. Why in the world does a Frost or Blood Death Knight not have Army of the Dead? The overall class fantasy has disappeared as class abilities have been split between the specs.

    3. Balancing nightmare - I think it was quite obvious from the outset that there was no way that Blizzard was going to be able to balance 36 x 7 = 252 rows of talents, spec legendaries, stats, artifacts, etc. And they know this. At this point in the game's life span they should be trying to minimise the risk of class imbalance, not increasing balance problems.

    I think that they should have stuck to the 12 class theme, kept the class fantasy, focused on balance and gameplay and really refined it rather than throw us this 36 mini-class gimmick for shock value. It really sacrificed gameplay.

  2. #2
    No thank you. I will not be pigeonholed into healing again on any of my classes that can heal just becasue.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    No thank you. I will not be pigeonholed into healing again on any of my classes that can heal just becasue.
    There would still be 36 specs, just not as isolated as they are at the moment.

  4. #4
    If the argument is that this will make things easier to balance, then this isn't working - they already cut like half of the game off and the balance is complete crap (they removed: tons of abilities, major glyphs, several stats like multistrike, draenor perks, enchants on most of slots, etc, there are a few other items; they added about half of that back with artifacts and honor talents, but that's just half). Reducing doesn't help them. The problem is somewhere else.

  5. #5
    I think this "36 mini-classes system" was the most interesting thing they did in this game.

  6. #6
    ah the shared talent-trees was awesome ^^
    Loved the old talent-system much more then this one

  7. #7
    No,

    this was one of the main issues i had with vanilla.
    3 talent trees with only one of them being valid for my class, so:

    No, thank you.

  8. #8
    2 ways to solve this is. Returning to 12 classes is one of them.

    Another solution is to remove 9 needless specs from the game and only focus on balancing 27 different specs. We don't need disc, fury, arcane, demo, survival, enhancement, balance, subtetly, unholy for instance.

  9. #9
    no thx. This will be on legacy servers if there ever be some. WP vanila
    (This signature was removed for violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

  10. #10
    For God's sake. THINK.

    That was exactly what kind of the goal was in the previous design iteration - where they would try to have a lot of ability overlap across the specs. The result was everyone whining that the specs felt all the same and that they felt random and lacked identity and clearly defined character. Which was in fact the catalyst for the whole "class fantasy" angle and the recent redesigns.

    Not saying the one approach is better than the other, but pointing out that it's so irresponsibly nonsensical to ask the question you just asked.

    Your "opposite of class fantasy" claim, on top of that, is obviously incredible nonsense. I think you just don't understand what the term actually means. Terrible thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rassium View Post
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  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Static Transit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slaskel View Post
    2 ways to solve this is. Returning to 12 classes is one of them.

    Another solution is to remove 9 needless specs from the game and only focus on balancing 27 different specs. We don't need disc, fury, arcane, demo, survival, enhancement, balance, subtetly, unholy for instance.
    Wait, what makes those 9 specs any more "needless" than the others?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Static Transit View Post
    Wait, what makes those 9 specs any more "needless" than the others?
    They are examples of healing or dps specs for classes that already have at least one of those already. So that class can already perform that role without those specs. You could switch fury with arms or demo with affli for instance.

  13. #13
    Elemental Lord Maklor's Avatar
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    No, it's nice as it is.

  14. #14
    Won't happen, ever. I agree that 36 is too much and diluted, but you can't force all the warriors into prot, for example.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by exeetor View Post
    ah the shared talent-trees was awesome ^^
    Loved the old talent-system much more then this one
    ∆ this

    However, I think I would make balancing even more nightmarish.

  16. #16
    I get what you're saying OP and I agree. I never had a problem with the previous style of class design where specs had a lot of overlapping abilities, it wasn't ideal thematically but the gameplay was always enjoyable from Wrath onwards. The Legion model has worked for some specs (e.g. Enhance), but caused severe issues for many other specs. Spec identity has never been stronger but gameplay has definitely suffered for it.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by exeetor View Post
    ah the shared talent-trees was awesome ^^
    Loved the old talent-system much more then this one
    I would give a lot to have the customisability of the WotLK skill trees back. Played a 50/50 enh/ele mix in pvp, no one saw it coming and it wrecked fucking faces.

    I loved being like "My spec feels a bit too squishy, i should see if i can divert some points to a defensive talent" etc.
    The customisability was godlike.

    The new system often revolves around 1 or 2 talents in each row being must picks, and the rest being unpickable garbage

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    Won't happen, ever. I agree that 36 is too much and diluted, but you can't force all the warriors into prot, for example.
    You don't force them into Prot, you just make arms and Fury pretty bad and state "This is how it is from now on!" and let the players decide.

    The game will be so much better with 1 tank class, 1 healer class and 3 range dps classes.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by slaskel View Post
    2 ways to solve this is. Returning to 12 classes is one of them.

    Another solution is to remove 9 needless specs from the game and only focus on balancing 27 different specs. We don't need disc, fury, arcane, demo, survival, enhancement, balance, subtetly, unholy for instance.
    Something tells me you never tried any of these 9 specs...
    - disc plays completely differently to holy (aswell as being our only hybrid healer)
    - demo plays completely differently to the other 2 specs and is way more reliant on "pets" than any other spec ingame
    - survival might have seemed like "just another bow spec prior to legion", but is now a whole other thing
    ... could go on and on about this, but you should be able to get my point from these.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by slaskel View Post
    They are examples of healing or dps specs for classes that already have at least one of those already. So that class can already perform that role without those specs. You could switch fury with arms or demo with affli for instance.
    By that logic, you could reduce the game to Tank, Heal, DD specs and abolish classes entirely. Come up with something better.

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