Cata: Death of Rogues and ganking?

[Oppressionix805]

whatever the case may be, rogues will still be hella good PvP'rs

just think of this, cataclysm ain't here, so lets just take a calm breath

and hope its all good

I'm super thrilled with my druid preview :]

[K4ge]

Could you like, please stop crying. WoW isn't balanced around 1vs1 so don't try to give 289323892 examples on when you would lose.
There are a million fights which you would win. WoW = rock paper siccors in 1vs1. Try to do 3vs3 and that is where the real skill comes out.

My 3v3 rating is in my sig, kkthx

[Conquestaxe]

People keep saying world pvp is dead, but this is just untrue(at least on my server). It seems like there are horde in IF and SW Multiple times throughout the day. Honor Hold seems to be a very popular target also. If you go to STV you expect to either pvp or be ganked. There is plenty of world pvp out there for those willing to look or instigate, but people would rather complain. Looking back through nostalgia filled eyes, gives you a distorted picture.

[Balduvian]

I'm not going to post any names, but someone's Epeen and QQ about his/her class not being "that awesome at all" is devastating again. Kinda starts to get boring after 1827 of those posts :

[Warllyz]

Ok, assuming a good geared warlock.
32k hp
5k healthstone (2.5k with wound up)
25% soul link
and the voidwalker bubble

he will drop to 60-70% in the first stunlock. he can no put his instant dots on the rogue and then instant howl of terror or deathcoil him (no, vanishing a dc in meleerange is not something that can be done everytime)

kidney has a 20 sek cd



But I'll be frank here: If you all really have that many problems with rogues: You suck. Don't blame it on the game.

What the hell did this prove?

First of all, a full wrathful warlock would be at about 30k, unless hes stacking stam like a bad.

Also, glyph of SL is bad.

And the most annoying part of your post, after the OMG INSTA CAST DOTS OPOPOPOP DEATHCOIL, you cloak vanish amirite?

You can then sap me for the remainder of your oh so precious kidney cooldown, and open on me. The only difference this time is that I won't have healthstone, or deathcoil, or voidwalker sack, or probably trinket.

You are also undead, so if you just sat there biding your time you could effectively remove the instant HoT both times you open.

tl;dr: You fail at duels, but are good at 3s.

Not sayin its a bad thing, but your perspective on rogue duels is horribly flawed.

[Rayzan]

So you are saying how weak rogues are, but you seem to have facerolled to 2.4k rating.


Just sayin out loud what almost everyone else would be thinking at this point ^^

3v3 is based on comp and teamwork. A rogue can be severely underpowered but if he brings the right tools to the team he'll still excel.

And the reason he keeps giving these examples is because nubs keep trying to say rogues can stun lock to death almost any class, which is complete bull. They can't stun lock to death any class with good gear and half a brain.

And how come you assume that he facerolled to 2.4k? Jealous you can't get there?

[Balduvian]

And the reason he keeps giving these examples is because nubs keep trying to say rogues can stun lock to death almost any class, which is complete bull. They can't stun lock to death any class with good gear and half a brain.

As much as it's true that you can't stunlock anyone to death with atleast half decent gear, he always makes his class look worse then it actually is. (Plus the fact that his Epeen is huge at times.) I've said this before, but it seems that some people can't change or are simply so ignorant that they can't see the facts straight anymore. There's more in life then 1827 QQ or cry posts about his own class not being "that awesome" while it has always been one of the better classes for whatever PvP situations.

Try some Holy Priest QQ, or Balance Druid QQ, because Rogue QQ is simply getting boring.

[HavocLock]

Hmm.. a thread to feel sorry for rogues for an event at least 6 months away that hasn't even been tested nor finalized yet. Yep, sign me up.

[Rayzan]

Hmm.. a thread to feel sorry for rogues for an event at least 6 months away that hasn't even been tested nor finalized yet. Yep, sign me up.

If you read atleast the first page you understand that you're wrong. OP even stated he doesn't even have a rogue he was just speculating and wanted to hear feed back. Although the thread did go off topic, it still has nothing to due with QQ'ing about Cata changes.

[Rayzan]

I completely agree with you. It isn't and shouldn't be based around 1v1 and I'm not QQ'ing about rogues sucking in duels. I'm just simply saying to all those who whine about stun locks being over powered that, ultimately, they're not. And that any class can avoid them if they have half way decent gear and know what they're doing.

[UnholyFish]

The larger healthpools should be a pretty clear hint. I don't think stunlocks will kill anything, from cloth to plate, I'm merely guessing however. But I'm also thinking that the devs are starting to look at it from a right perspective when it comes down to it. I mean a rogue has the advantage of surprise, then there's the incapacitation advantage, which will always put the rogue above the opponent, give or take a plate class. I think they are reducing the value of this advantage to ,shall we say, a fairer level, where the stunlock is the start of the fight, as opposed to the start and the end of the fight. The "game isn't balanced around 1v1" excuse got old in TBC.

[heyyo173]

i fear that the devs are removing flavor from that games and converting it into an equation where fairness is more easily created.

what i mean is that it is my opinion that the devs see rogues in cata as 75% as good as any other class so the purpose of cs/ks is to remove 25% of that players hp so that the rogue brings the other play down to his lvl

now im guessing that this means that good players are just going to stomp all over rogues especially since their new defensive cd goes away if you dont hit the rogue for 6 sec, or you just drop a snare or cc

smoke bomb is fine but it doesnt change the fact that the target will now be creating more distance between himself and the rogue

its seems the direction the rogue is headed is that of the current state of ret pallies, bursty uncontrollable dmg with finishers or poisons depending on spec, and then the control isnt really control only a crappy excuse for prolonging an inevitable death against a skilled player

[Animated]

As much as it's true that you can't stunlock anyone to death with atleast half decent gear, he always makes his class look worse then it actually is. (Plus the fact that his Epeen is huge at times.) I've said this before, but it seems that some people can't change or are simply so ignorant that they can't see the facts straight anymore. There's more in life then 1827 QQ or cry posts about his own class not being "that awesome" while it has always been one of the better classes for whatever PvP situations.

Try some Holy Priest QQ, or Balance Druid QQ, because Rogue QQ is simply getting boring.

./thread

[K4ge]

So you are saying how weak rogues are, but you seem to have facerolled to 2.4k rating.


Just sayin out loud what almost everyone else would be thinking at this point ^^

Sure, I facerolled my way up.

What the hell did this prove?

First of all, a full wrathful warlock would be at about 30k, unless hes stacking stam like a bad.

Also, glyph of SL is bad.

And the most annoying part of your post, after the OMG INSTA CAST DOTS OPOPOPOP DEATHCOIL, you cloak vanish amirite?

You can then sap me for the remainder of your oh so precious kidney cooldown, and open on me. The only difference this time is that I won't have healthstone, or deathcoil, or voidwalker sack, or probably trinket.

You are also undead, so if you just sat there biding your time you could effectively remove the instant HoT both times you open.

tl;dr: You fail at duels, but are good at 3s.

Not sayin its a bad thing, but your perspective on rogue duels is horribly flawed.

I'll will admit, that I am not the best duelist (oh god, the wordplay), but I do believe to be better than most other players. And, frankly, eben several extremely good rogues I know (yes, a LOT better than me) lose plenty of duels versus warlocks.

As much as it's true that you can't stunlock anyone to death with atleast half decent gear, he always makes his class look worse then it actually is. (Plus the fact that his Epeen is huge at times.) I've said this before, but it seems that some people can't change or are simply so ignorant that they can't see the facts straight anymore. There's more in life then 1827 QQ or cry posts about his own class not being "that awesome" while it has always been one of the better classes for whatever PvP situations.

Try some Holy Priest QQ, or Balance Druid QQ, because Rogue QQ is simply getting boring.

If you did'nt notice: While this thread was on track, I was actually saying, that any form of rogue qq at this point is UNNECESSARY. And I not once mentioned that my class is underpowered... I simplay stated (and this is a fact) that rogues are not a good duel class right now. Anyone, especially warlocks crying about stunlocks, that does not agree with me (or pretty much every good player I know) on this point is even more biased than I am, probably due to lack of gear.

Oh well, sh*t happens. Rogues for so long have been saying that the game isn't based around 1v1. Perhaps it's time for them to listen to their own words?

If a class can't win 1v1 it doesn't matter, because (repeat after me), "The Game isn't based around 1v1!".

Nope. Never been jealous of anyone or anything. Never will be. But let's just say i would be a bit more impressed looking at a 2.4k rated Enhancement Shaman

Beast cleave.

[ItachiZaku]

As a geared resto druid, if the rogue doesn't have insane damage in his first two stuns, he will never kill me. As ungeared (pvpwise) anything else, a rogue will usually kill me in one stun.

[ejzo]

lets hope so because ganking is the most retarded thing ever

[zox]

If the opponent is in a 0 resi gear, the rogue will most likely be able to kill them easily.

[NightHaawk]

If the opponent is in a 0 resi gear, the rogue will most likely be able to kill them easily.

So true half of the people that complain about OP rogues i see have either no PVP gear or 1 ungemmed peice from VOA.
(this coming from the worst PVPer of all time

[thetaurenrogue]

well actually killing in a stunlock wasn't around in the start of wow, rogues were known more for their ability to sneak up and1 shot people who'd just survived a battle and were sitting down to eat with 10% hp, and people still loved rogues then, so there will be no death of rogues nor ganking

Actually stunlock was very much alive in vanilla just most rogues didnt know how to do it.
There are videos out there of rogues killing rank 14 warriors(rogue counterclass) in a stunlock with green gear and grey weapons.

Also they have brought back shs this patch(yes 2800+ viable with multiple comps armory reckful) it just has a higher skill cap. Shs has much more the rock paper scissors feel to it. Great against ranged/heals bad against plate.

[Simbert]

First of all, if you are a good PvP rogue, you will destroy most opponents in a 1v1. But this is not because rogues are op, but because most people are in fact really bad. You can do exactly the same with any other class. Except maybe healers, they have a problem against people with self-healing capacities.

But as a good, PvP geared (any class), you will destroy most people in a 1v1. In a bg, you will most likely also win a large amount of 1v2 if you choose them right. Anything with less then 25k hp is basically a free kill if you get 10 seconds alone with it.

World PvP is largely dead because of flying mounts. Because people are so afraid of dying, that in most cases, if they are not absolutely sure of winning, they will fly around all the time, until you have pulled 10 mobs and are at low hp, to then engage you.

Oh, and those locks talking about duels against rogue. Assuming equal skill and gear, why don´t you simply use a succubus, place it 20 yards away from you, and win extremely easy?