Will Cata bring Beast Mastery back?

[JaimeRavenholdt]

Looking over the Mastery stuff for Hunters in Cata, I'm hoping the BM Pet Damage portion gets buffed enough to make BM viable in PvE again. I believe they've already mentioned making it more suitable outside of 3's Cleave in PvP, which is fantastic. However, I'd like to keep my Skoll out all the time if I can.

That leads me to a side note. I'd also like to see more pet types have uses in PvP, rather than best/worst choices. I've always followed the mantra of play what you like and make it work somehow. Sometimes that's impossible in this game (melee Hunter) without gimping yourself too hard, but Cata is a chance to open previously unimaginable options.

Hopes? Encouragement?

[Wardley]

The problem is that there will always be a 'best/worse' choice which, after every patch, will be analysised and digested and debated over again and again.

Even if there's really a very very minimal difference between pets, everyone will still rather go for that extra 1 or 2 DPS than use the pet that they actually like. And even if you decided you'd rather go with a cat instead of a wolf (for example) everyone else will question whether you're actually a good hunter or not as you're not using the best pet in game.

The only way Blizzard could 'fix' that would be to have all pets have exactly the same abilities - just in a different body. So, it doesn't matter if you've got a cat, wolf, wasp, raptor or ghost bear - they'd all do exactly the same thing.

[Kissmyhammer]

I really hope that Bm is gonna be back as a more viable spec for hunters.

It doesnt mean that i would respec it tbh.
As i see it, making the new shot and stuff blizzard do intend to make hunters being able to go BM again !

As for pets - There would be problems unless all pets did have same skills. I do still like that they are diffrent, and some are for PvP and others for PvE purpose. I wouldnt like just having to chose pet coz of the look, but more of what i can do to me !

[Om1]

they way I understand it is that they will give pets different kinds of debuff/buffs which will be similar to what different classes bring to the game. so if you're missing some kind of buff/debuff, have the hunter bring out a pet that can bring it without it being a loss of dps for the hunter.

this may lead to again not all hunters getting to run with their favorite pet, but I can't say anything for sure.

[Cyph3r]

I'm a long time BM fan, raided as it pretty much up until ICC too. I don't know that you can even argue if it's "coming back" when I don't think it ever really left. Public opinion about how bad the spec was was largely exaggerated most of the time, and it's still very popular for leveling and pvp.

My hopes for BM in Cataclysm don't extend wanting a little more complexity out of it. And by the sounds of it we may be getting just that with the new shot and accompanying talents to modify it for BM alone.

In regards to pets, the preview almost made it sound like the 3 separate talent tree thing might be going away; from the preview:

The intention is to allow the hunter to be able to swap pets and fill a position if a certain role is missing from the group. The goal is to have all pets provide a damage increase that is very similar and no greater than any other pet.

The only thing we don't know is if this applies only to ferocity pets, or if all pets will share a talent tree/trees in Cataclysm. I can see a single tree (expanded) that combines the various elements of the 3 current trees which would allow a really custom build for any pet, any situation (since we'll be selecting them largely for the family skill). Only time will tell I suppose...

[JaimeRavenholdt]

I'm a long time BM fan, raided as it pretty much up until ICC too. I don't know that you can even argue if it's "coming back" when I don't think it ever really left.

I don't know man. I want to agree with you, but I think the only BM spec I ran through a calculator that was competitive with low end Marks and Survival was without Exotic pets- which kind of defeats the purpose for me (<3 my Skoll). While I agree that a certain BM spec could work with the right gear, you're still strangled in terms of customization.

Concerning pets- I want to see that pet utility make all pets the right choice for a raid. No matter what, I want a Hunter to be a be able to bring his favorite pet to 75% of things and still be useful. Perhaps it's wishful thinking? :/

[Daginni]

What I want to see is just a minimal difference between BM and the other specs of at least 250 - 500 DPS. I know that there are reasons that make this goal hard, but damn would the ability to choose and not be forced be nice.

[Intwine]

What I want to see is just a minimal difference between BM and the other specs of at least 250 - 500 DPS. I know that there are reasons that make this goal hard, but damn would the ability to choose and not be forced be nice.

well, that's the beauty of cobra shot.
If there are big dps holes they can tweak that shot to do more/less dmg and bring it more in line with the other 2 specs.

[Tier]

It would be plausible that BM would be on top at the start due to scaling. But hopefully it falls by the wayside quickly like it did in wrath.

[Lysah]

It would be plausible that BM would be on top at the start due to scaling. But hopefully it falls by the wayside quickly like it did in wrath.

Or, they could, you know, actually make it a fun spec to play so that people don't want to see it do terrible DPS.

A lot of people say they're glad BM sucks because it was so boring in TBC. Well, here's a simple solution - actually make hunters fun to play!

[fartman69]

i actually think a hybrid between Survival (main) and BM will be the highest dps spec in cata due to the high synergy between the 2 specs, and with the new steady shot "cobra shot" and the mastery bonus for survival you will scale quite nicely

[deadman80]

In regards to pets, the preview almost made it sound like the 3 separate talent tree thing might be going away; from the preview:

The only thing we don't know is if this applies only to ferocity pets, or if all pets will share a talent tree/trees in Cataclysm. I can see a single tree (expanded) that combines the various elements of the 3 current trees which would allow a really custom build for any pet, any situation (since we'll be selecting them largely for the family skill). Only time will tell I suppose...

I doubt they will remove the pet talent system since it adds a lot of depth and customization to the class. Blizz considers choices to be "fun", so the trees will still be there. My take on their statement that pets will all do roughly the same dps is that pets will all be on the same baseline dps-wise, then that is modified by talents. (I think the best way to interpret what they said would be "Wolves will not outperform other pets with the same spec." Blizz says that choice is a good thing, and they want to give us raiders a choice about not bringing a wolf.

[Tier]

I doubt they will remove the pet talent system since it adds a lot of depth and customization to the class. Blizz considers choices to be "fun", so the trees will still be there. My take on their statement that pets will all do roughly the same dps is that pets will all be on the same baseline dps-wise, then that is modified by talents. (I think the best way to interpret what they said would be "Wolves will not outperform other pets with the same spec." Blizz says that choice is a good thing, and they want to give us raiders a choice about not bringing a wolf.

I agree the talent trees are staying, they didn't even hint at the removal of them. Really they could make all ferocity pets have the same ability for dps. I mean people will call it boring but at least you'll have a choice, a cosmetic one but thats still more than you have now. The tanking and utility pets can stay as they are of course. They fill their roles well.

[Logickal]

i actually think a hybrid between Survival (main) and BM will be the highest dps spec in cata due to the high synergy between the 2 specs

oh come on seriously? you havent even seen the talent trees and you're already making such an assumption

personally im looking forward to survival gonna seem like a fun spec to keep on playing. (sure as hell glad i didnt reroll MM)

[chuck123]

As for my suggestion regarding a shot to replace arcane or steady shot,i made on the official forums some months ago(now named cobra shot by blizzard in the preview), i am very certain it will be quite deep in the BM tree or else it would totally defeat its purpose to make it a "bm unique shot"(like CS and ES for the other 2 specs is).

Following this suggestion, it needs to be places somewhere deep down where currently cobra reflexes (or simmilar not very likely specced talents) is.
This would also make it quite obvious why it was called that way in the first place.

[Lezarin]

In some ways the cobra shot will help with the dps loss we have at mo .but in saying that we raid icc 25 man with a bm hunter and tbh his pets so handy he doesnt top dps but he does finish in the top 6 and has saved the lives of healers etc so many times .ohh look squishie priest about to be mullered get him pet priest saved pet gets a rez we move on .

I get the feeling blizz are going to tweak the bm tree like they did with the demo tree for warlocks it,ll not do top dps but it,ll bring buffs to the raid the other 2 trees cant and with the new shot we wont be hampered as much as we were.

I,d defo play my hunter as bm in a raid not coz it might do damage but because i enjoy it simple as i,ve never been the one to tweak my self to get 2 dps more and if anyone says anything to me i go i play the way i enjoy it if its a severe issue and i suck then i,ll sort it if its not a major thing then i wont i,ll go on enjoying it.

[Cyph3r]

I doubt they will remove the pet talent system since it adds a lot of depth and customization to the class. Blizz considers choices to be "fun", so the trees will still be there. My take on their statement that pets will all do roughly the same dps is that pets will all be on the same baseline dps-wise, then that is modified by talents. (I think the best way to interpret what they said would be "Wolves will not outperform other pets with the same spec." Blizz says that choice is a good thing, and they want to give us raiders a choice about not bringing a wolf.

No I wasn't trying to imply that the talent trees were being removed, but rather that they were going to be MERGED. We'll either see pets will all 3 trees (much like players) -or- the 3 trees will be merged into a single tree that has the abilities of all 3 of the current ones, and we'll be afforded even MORE customization to our pets.

And actually your statement about baseline dps modified by talents is ALREADY how pets work. At the beginning of the expansion the pet type added damage and health modifiers (ferocity had +10% damage, tenacity had +10% health, etc.) but this was later normalized and all pets are now even across the board prior to talents. Before you factor in talents the ONLY thing that boosts 1 pet over another is family skill.

What I read from the comment in the preview is that this will remain true, and that family skills are getting reworked so that they provide more utility buffs/debuffs, and less straight damage modifiers (though some of these may remain present). And even IF we keep the current talent tree system intact, I expect overhauls of each tree anyway.

[Nirual]

i am very certain it will be quite deep in the BM tree or else it would totally defeat its purpose to make it a "bm unique shot"(like CS and ES for the other 2 specs is).

L2Read, seriously. Cobra shot is a core ability, serving the purpose of helping hunters against highly armored targets while talents in BM make it useful for them at all times. It's not a instant shot on a cd, it's an alternative to Steady Shot.

[select20]

I stopped playing my hunter way back whem BM got nerf to hell. He's been sitting at lvl70 ever since. When they decide to make BM comparable to the others, and do something about the pets aggro holding abilities, I'll lvl him.

[Irony]

I don't care if BM is viable, but if its the top dps for hunters through out Cata, then I will retire my hunter. Bm is lame.