Normal Nibelung vs Heroic Mag'hari...

[obaminator]

i can't really choose. I am already way above haste cap but wrath calcs is telling me the more haste the better... but wrath calcs also says that normal nibelung is ~450 dps... this question is mainly directed towards qieth, since he's an expert in wrathcalcs. Here is my armory for my crit/haste/sp.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-f...&cn=Obaminator

[Deleted]

HC Mag'hari.

[obaminator]

HC Mag'hari.

quick response lmao... i would assume though for most fights in icc valks would proc a lot( Lich King, Putricide, Rotface, Princes, deathwhisper), and some fights no (BQL, Festergut, sindragosa, marrowgar). Mainly fights with 2+ adds or bosses, i could see nibelung uptime being better

[Nirual]

Well, its hard to break the proc down in simple numbers. Depending on the fight Nibelung can come up on top, at least among the same ilevel alternatives, or be a lot weaker because the val'kyrs come out at the wrong times or die in ooze, fires or whatever.

[Deleted]

I am by no means a Wrath Calc expert :P I wouldn't be able to tell you the calculations behind it, but I can put numbers into formulas and read the result :P The extra stats you get from Mag'Hari Chieftans Staff (140 spirit, 150 haste, 27 spell power if gem with pure red gems in Mag'Hari) is about 350 DPS, using my own values from Wrath Calc.

I have no idea what Nibelung can pull these days. My best suggestion is that you use the staff for a raid or two, and look at World of Logs afterwards to see what their *effective* DPS is. That means, don't look at what DPS they did when they we're up, because they will usually do some 1000-1200 DPS. You need to see how much DPS they contributed throughout the fight. If it averages out to about 350 DPS, then its a coin toss and your own preference. I suspect that there are still some fights where it would be better to use a stat-staff, and other fights where Nibelung shows good results. If the valkyrs are going up above 350 DPS, then favor would obviously be towards Nibelung. If you are seeing valkyrs at, say, 150 DPS consistantly, in every fight, over several raid weeks, then you should probably just try out the Mag'Hari staff.

A general rule of thumb, though, is that Nibelungs proc is supposed to match the DPS we would have otherwise have gotten from stats.

[Araun]

as an elemental shammy the valks count for 4-10% of my dmg and I do 8-10k dps in ICC. so around 500 dps is what I get from it. fight dependant ofc, they're not worth much on BQ/sind/fester HC.

[obaminator]

Ya qieth I agree, I think ill try out nibelung tonight on a couple bosses. Just wondering, I've heard hc nibelung is BiS for moonkins if we are capped in haste and crit. Is this true???

[Deleted]

Ya qieth I agree, I think ill try out nibelung tonight on a couple bosses. Just wondering, I've heard hc nibelung is BiS for moonkins if we are capped in haste and crit. Is this true???

Well if you are capped on haste + crit, then extra haste and crit would be pointless, meaning a staff without haste and crit (read: Nibelung) would be better with no wasted stats. Common sense wins again!

[obaminator]

Well if you are capped on haste + crit, then extra haste and crit would be pointless, meaning a staff without haste and crit (read: Nibelung) would be better with no wasted stats. Common sense wins again!

heh you must not play a boomkin... although the haste cap for wrath is low, the hastecap for starfire is 2000+ and according to wrathcalcs and what qieth said, the staff gives me about 350 dps...

[Deleted]

Anyways, I have read nothing that claims that Nibelung heroic is outright BIS. Its a good choice, but I don't think anything beats Royal Scepter heroic + Shadow Silk Spindle heroic. Slightly after that comes Frozen Bonespike heroic + SSS.

The point is really the same as the one i made above. It depends on the benefit from the Valkyrs. I prefer to avoid the randomness of the Valkyrs.

Well if you are capped on haste + crit, then extra haste and crit would be pointless, meaning a staff without haste and crit (read: Nibelung) would be better with no wasted stats. Common sense wins again!

Its important to note that we are talking *soft* caps. Haste and crit are still very much stats we want, and that we should increase. In my gear, haste is worth about 1,4 DPS per point, crit around 1,1 DPS per point, with spell power being worth about 1,98 DPS per point.