Ulduar far more interesting than ICC

[Ryme]

Hard mode activation is what swings it for me.

Seriously, the reason they cut it was because "It was too complicated for some raiders" yeah, well, let's be honest here. If figuring out how to activate a hard mode is what's restricting your raiders, you're doing it horribly wrong.

The only exception I could give to this is Vezax, if you didn't understand the mechanics to that fight, I guess you could've activated hm by accident.

[Mclotsodots]

Honestly I feel, as some one else stated, that there is a lot missing from ICC. One thing that was completely over looked was Mal'Ganis. When we defeated him in the cave under the Crimson Cathedral he said that he was going back to his home world to marshal his forces for the final assault on the LK. When we get to ICC nothing, no mention of him. Raids should have a total over whelming epic feeling to them Ulduar had that, some of the TBC raids had it like Karazan, Are there fun fights in ICC yes, are there interesting new mechanics yes, does it feel epic not really.

Also why did they have to go back to the three wing set up I hate that. Let us have an instance that has general progression through it. Not where we kill all but the last boss in each wing then go back in for the final bosses of each wing. A lot of ICC feels reused it feels like Naxx 2.0 and I think that is why it feels so blah.

Anyway that's my opinion,

[Fizzle]

Personally I think Ulduar was the best raid in WotLK, and its so sad that guilds cba'd to progress on Uld HMs then... But now ToC and ICC have come out and people cry about these raids, and they go back to ulduar cause HM's are now easy in the gear that is obtainable these days.


People are just afraid of a challenge. So they wait and go back to it when it's not so hard.

[Litoru]

I've been raiding since vanilla WoW, and I must say that Ulduar has a special place in my heart, together with older instances.

I have resto shaman as my main and a prot paladin as an alt, which I both raided with from in Ulduar and it was a blast. Firefighter, Yogg +1, if you just think about it, most of the fights were exciting and different, from both healing and tanking perspective. General Vezax is just such a nice change for the never ooming fights. Thorim to split the raid up. And Algalon ofcourse, just epic.
To tank ICC is basically just taunt at x amout of stacks, aaand... switch.... aaaaand... switch.... To heal it, just go spamming your biggest raid wide heal, you won't oom anyway.

When we came to LK I expected this badass difficult fight, so when we downed him the same night, it was such a disappointment. I didn't even finish watching the cinematics.

Ulduar has the looks, the epicness, the great follow up between bosses, working against and reaching for a goal, yogg, the hardmodes and the variety.

[Nicolicious]

Ulduar was by far the best WotLK raid. But far, far and further behind than ANY TBC raid.

[Nikoll]

I don't understand why people think the algalon fight was such an amazing fight. It's a great fight, sure. But take the hour time limit away and nobody would think that way. That said, I did enjoy ulduar more but icc is very well done too. Many bosses do have a lot of nice game mechanics.

[Cjros]

(yes I know, Azeroth has supposedly hinged on your success in previous raid encounters, but they weren't the Lich King)

If we failed at Sunwell, the world would have essentially ended that day. If we failed on Algalon, the world would've essentially ended that minute. If we failed on LK he'd have to rebuild his entire army that we destroyed... I don't think 25 people are going to vanquish every hero and city in a few minutes.

[Keoren]

I liked Ulduar better than ICC, but I believe that opinion is somewhat driven by the fact I liked the hard mode model much better and consider it successful compared to that of ICC.

I was also disappointed how ICC lacked the lore it was expected to include. Ulduar didn't have similar expectations which is, granted, bit unfair, but I believe it worked out better for what it was supposed to be.

[toastymage]

I think something critical Ulduar had that ICC lacks was an incredibly varied, moody, and amazing quality sound track. The music was so incredible, it was different for just about every boss and each piece fit the atmosphere of the environment you were in perfectly.

The music also enhanced the boss dialogue(which was also much higher quality in Ulduar). Do you remember that ominous, subtly menacing song that plays while Mimiron tells you that you don't have much time? It underscores the overt threat that Mimiron is making and makes it even more forboding. IIRC, the same plays when Sara warns that, "The time to strike at the head of the beast will soon be upon us!"

ICC has... one slow, forboding track, a track for Sindragosa, and a toned-down version of Lament of the Highborne. And the only good boss dialogue is at the very end when you score a LK kill.

[mogulkhan]

ULDUAR IS THE BEST RAID EVER. It will be hard to overcome the awesomeness of Ulduar.

ICC is a very good raid as well. It does not compare to Ulduar because:

1- ICC is not as big as Ulduar (14 bosses > 12 bosses).

2- most of ICC's focus is on LK (a little on Saurfang/Sindagosa/San'layn), while Ulduar had almost equal focus on keepers as Yogg (through quests in Stormpeaks). So most fights felt epic.

3- Algalon made Ulduar even more epic. ICC lacked an 'Algalon.'

4- Ulduar's design is very refreshing, very live, and tells about the history of Azeroth. While ICC's theme is death and suffering, not a favorite.

5- HM activation in Ulduar was very interesting. ICC HM activation does have that.

6- Lot of Ulduar fights were almost equal in difficulty, FF/KKKoW/Yogg0/Algalon/Vezax. While LK makes all the fights (except PP/Sind) look like child's play.

ICC is still one of the best raids and LK25hc is still the toughest boss in WoW.

fully agree with this guy

[SolidSnake]

Icecrown's in a fucking Glacier, ther's the Lich King in it, how could they possibly make it look "various"?


Ulduar is various just because inside it ther's 4 keepers of 4 different elements, plus ther's an "Antechamber" wich allows developers to vary even more, and yeah, ther's even a courtyard part.

ICC is way smaller and it's purpose wasn't to look good, but cold, scary and solitary. And they succeed.

Maybe the could have made the "Blood Wing" actually have blood dripping from the ceiling, or many pipes running throughout the area carrying rivers of blood. Maybe have the plague wing more than just a hallway with two test-tubes running to a door. They could have been far more creative with a lot of the interior of the actual citadel.

[SolidSnake]

I've played the game so long that i feel i can give a completely unbiased view of each raid instance compared with each other.

I imagine the OP to be a fairly new player to WoW and had his most enjoyable raid experience with Ulduar, because it was pretty much the first decent raid he attempted.

Therefore i group him with many other new players in a similar situation and put his/there opinion down to one thing -

Nostalgia.


Just my 2 cents.


The same/different people will be saying the same thing about ICC, this time next year and how epic the Lich King fight was.

I've been playing since the launch of TBC, just for the record. I wasn't fortunate enough to get past Kalecgos pre-3.0, so I'd have to say my favorite raid instance experience was BT. It actually felt like a temple, it felt like you were actually sneaking in to the temple. ICC felt bland and like you just waltzed through. I just wasn't impressed with ICC compared to Ulduar, it doesn't mean Ulduar is my favorite raid.

[SuperScrotum]

ULDUAR IS THE BEST RAID EVER. It will be hard to overcome the awesomeness of Ulduar.

ICC is a very good raid as well. It does not compare to Ulduar because:

1- ICC is not as big as Ulduar (14 bosses > 12 bosses).

2- most of ICC's focus is on LK (a little on Saurfang/Sindagosa/San'layn), while Ulduar had almost equal focus on keepers as Yogg (through quests in Stormpeaks). So most fights felt epic.

3- Algalon made Ulduar even more epic. ICC lacked an 'Algalon.'

4- Ulduar's design is very refreshing, very live, and tells about the history of Azeroth. While ICC's theme is death and suffering, not a favorite.

5- HM activation in Ulduar was very interesting. ICC HM activation does have that.

6- Lot of Ulduar fights were almost equal in difficulty, FF/KKKoW/Yogg0/Algalon/Vezax. While LK makes all the fights (except PP/Sind) look like child's play.

ICC is still one of the best raids and LK25hc is still the toughest boss in WoW.

This. I don't know about the best ever, but I would say its up there. It is my favorite raid ever. I still am nostalgic(sp?) for the first time my guild downed yogg-saron last spring. It was epic and spine chilling. It was enjoyable for months after it came out to me.

ICC on the other hand.... is dull. Its not a terrible instance, but for the last major raid instance of the expansion, it was disappointing. I know the LK fight will be awesome when we get to it, but i don't think it makes up for the rest of the instance.

I like Ulduar better than the BC raids, however, i didn't get to BT. But the BC instances were better than the current WotLK ones. Naxx 2.0? ToC?

If it wasn't for Ulduar, i would have quit the game until i gave Cata a shot. If ulduar sucked, it would have given no hope for the future imo.

Ulduar also had awesome quotes..... *cough*mountains**cough*

[Blightrose]

I have to agree, Ulduar was a much much cooler and more epic raid than ICC.
ICC is a boring dungeon with quite a few boring looking bosses, Im not saying it isnt hard but difficulty in itself doesnt make a raid feel epic or cool.
It has been a very big letdown for me at least getting to ICC, I had been waiting for LK since I played warcraft 3 and now that its finally here its just boring and uninspired.
My favorite is still Sunwell (well until they nerfed it) but Ulduar comes pretty close IMO but unfortunately it doesnt stop WOTLK overall getting a pretty bad grade from me, it just hasnt been a very epic expansion (yeah Im especially looking at you ToC).
I hope Cataclysm will bring the epic back into the game.

[Findus707]

Hmm, still think Karazhan is the best raid.

[fapjackmasta]

i prefer the way the gear system works now where all you need are emblems to get the lowest level of tier compared to getting no tier unless it drops for you.

but as far as the actual raid goes, i definitely have to agree with you

[seam]

I remember a lot of whining about:
1) Ensidia killing Yogg after 2 days
2) Algalon 1 hour timer
3) Flame Leviathan too easy
4) Non-linear progression
5) The hardmode system
6) Encounter too "hard"/impossible (XT HM) and the following nerfs making them too "easy"

I myself like Ulduar now and I liked it a year ago.

I actually remember these too.

I for one was one of the people saying "I love it, and the difficulty feels perfect" while lots of people were crying about it being too easy/hard.

You can look up the old posts if you want, and look through my posts for proof =)


As for Ulduar vs ICC?

Give it 6 months before choosing. Raids NEVER look amazing while you do them, not even Sunwell did.

[ejzo]

its would have been more epic if they made the rooms huuuuuge!

[mogulkhan]

Well I agree that Ulduar was more Epic but we have to understand that Ulduar was a Titan Stronghold built thousands of years ago. It is afterall the Home of the Gods while Icecrown Citadel was built from nothing like 5 years ago. Also Icecrown Citadel is a Domain of Scourge, Necrotic beings, meaning they do not care for art or looks or anything. It's a monument that represents all that is ... basicly dead.

Although still siding with ICC!

Lich King FTW!

this ^

[soulpotatoez]

I remember heading into Ulduar the night it came out (Almost exactly a year ago I believe) and thinking "I'm never going back to naxx, this is too awesome!" and every wing had me saying the same thing. I haven't been in ICC yet though (just got back from not playing for 8 months), this new thing called GearScore, yeah, it ruined the game. I probably won't see ICC thanks to the new "Gear > Skill" concept.