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  1. #381

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I no longer see a reason to do 25 mans.

    Grats blizz, way to fuck over any serious raiding guild. Why waste your time finding 25 good players when you only need 10? Just take the 10 best out of your guild and sit the rest for a week, its easier than struggling with 25.

  2. #382

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by trilog
    yeah and I'm sure you're any good at the game, too. how's keyboard turning working out for you? still PUGing ICC and having trouble with anything beyond the first 4?

    don't worry one day you'll shine.
    9/12 ICC 25 before I stopped raiding.

    11/12 10 man.

    Heroics BTW, I'm sure you've never seen any of them.

    No keyboard turning here but I appreciate the scrub ass comments. Enjoy your free gear in Cata.

  3. #383

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I Aint read the other comments yet,but I like this change me and my rl friends quit 25 man raiding a few months ago and are running a 10 man guild,Making the 10 man's harder but with the same loot as 25 man raids is perfect for us i cant wait for this.

  4. #384

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Maybe this has already been answered but i cba reading all this stuff so here it goes:

    Imagine this:

    Guild doing 25man raiding. Kills first boss...awsome...
    Then starts wiping at second boss... and keep on wiping...

    Then they go for 10 man...but it happens that those 25 are saved on the same raid ID..i think this can suck abit.

    My experience is that this can cause some trouble..my guild for example, people raid 25 man..but on a sunday and monday we don't have enough people..so we go for 10 man

    The problem is that many people are now saved in the same raid lockout.

    See my point?

  5. #385
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tinkertown
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    124

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    One of the best changes ever!

    "Mm, your tears are so yummy and sweet"
    "You can just hang around outside in the sun all day, tossing a ball around, or you can sit at your computer and do something that matters!"

  6. #386

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I wonder how many people from 25 man guilds will be prefering to do a 10 man with some good players over the guild 25 man with harry the noob healer and flippy the five k dps.

  7. #387

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Strictly 10 man guild raider here. And first time poster. (be gentle) While I can see why people are upset about this change and I cant really blame them, I for one support the change. I didnt start raiding till the end of BC, we did 25s in naxx and stopped in ulduar, the hardest part of 25s for us was finding people who were smart enough to make it to the end, with the right people we always found 25s easy. So I like the fact that 10s may get harder and hold more merit. But Im not greedy and I dont really play for loot as much as the fun of raiding. I think they should make 1 or 2 short raids 2-3 bosses, they dont have to have a whole lot or anything to do with the story kind of like vault but make em 25only, or even 40s to give the guilds that like big group make ups something only they can acomplish, ill never see the content, but Im ok with that. me + spelling= Fail

  8. #388

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Thinking about it more though, they need to increase the amount of loot dropped in 25 man by a *lot*, otherwise it'll just be more profitable to run 2 or 3 10s mans instead of 1 25.

  9. #389

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    When this goes live, why would I ever run a 25 man again? I'm not against the change, and I think it's not worth speculating that 10's are getting harder or 25's are getting easier. 25's have inherent complexity just from having to manage more people. Does that mean DPS requirements will be less or equal to 10's (equal to account for a better spread or raid buffs/debuffs)? Obviously the 25's will have more loot, this has always been the case. Do they mean to say that there will be more loots per person in a 25? For example, ICC10 has 2 loots for 10 people. ICC25 has 3 loots for 25 people. So, bringing them to the same ilvl, means that ICC25 will have to have (2/10)= 0.2 * 25 = 5 loots per boss at least. Or maybe more? 6 loots? Perhaps more badges per boss?

    I'm sure there are 100 ways to spin it, but unless one or several of the above ideas takes place, I'll never run a 25 again.

  10. #390

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Sauredfangs
    hmmmm...... why can't they just do; More loot on 25 man but same item level?

    Like:

    25 man boss - 5 drops 3(or 4) emblem
    10 man boss - 2 drops 1(or 2) emblem
    Just hope they make it like this then. No more, no less.
    So they dont make it like:

    25 man boss - 4-5 drops 3 emblem
    10 man boss - 3 drops 2 emblem ... cause that would suck.

  11. #391

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Right now 10-mans are nearly pointless except for pugging or stomping over for some cheap gear that nobody really wants, except the 7 week saved time means you gotta get what you can.

    This change is going to largely make 25-man raiding obsolete, it hardly changes much.

    Personally i prefer 10-man raiding so im happy. I suppose some really like 25-man so for them it sucks. The biggest part of the playerbase however becomes crippled by the very thought of change and will hate it for the simple fact that the game doesn't stay the exact same way.

    Playerbase wise it could go either way. WoW could keep growing like it always has, or maybe the grow will start to stagnate a bit more considering alot of guilds might swap to 10-man and scrap their guild roster, and losing a guild can be a reason to stop playing for alot of people.

  12. #392

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Holy Crap, saw these changes get posted up - went AFK for a quick wank, and came back to find 400 replies ;D

    Good changes for me, I'm raid leading a 10man strict guild so nothing about this post can possibly be bad. We've got a good (imo) world rank in Strict 10man raiding which currently means absolute squat to many people. I can't argue with that because arguing what's hardest out of 10man strict or 25man raiding is like arguing what hurts more, giving birth or getting kicked in the crackers. No side can honestly see, or appreciate the other if you've got access to do both.

    These changes will give us the opportunity to compete, and that's all I can wish for.

    The cynic in me can't help thinking that 25man raiding will be dead in a month though - I've done 40man/25man in the past, the admin required is insane - as is the stress involved in keeping 25/40 people socially stable, whilst still performing and killing a boss. I can't see many people wanting to stick at that for the sake of prestige.


  13. #393

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I know what blizzard can do.

    They can just all bosses lootpinjata and then all causual will really feel cool and special. ohh wait they have are all ready that.
    mayby then just remove CC and make AoE on trash because everyone knows that CC is hard. ohh wait they have are all ready that.
    make HC retarded easy so everyone can walk with 9.25 tier 9. ohh wait they have are all ready that.

    pro tip to blizzard, stop beeing so fucking causual freindly and make people really work for their gear again, just like in your old games.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakk
    Only 6k GS? You need to stack more GS bro.* In Cataclysm there's gonna be gearscore gems that fit in all color sockets. They're pink. They give you GS. Makes you better at WoW. Stacking other stats is useless because GS is everything. I'm gonna reforge my gear and turn all the strength into GS so i hit harder.

  14. #394

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    when cataclysm gets released, expect a raise in the number of kids being born, nerds will become normal people again with less raids to attend, so they'll go out, get girlfriends, get married, get babies.

  15. #395

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I was really looking forward to Cataclysm raiding, but this really changed my mind. I might actually stop raiding.

  16. #396

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Wow, incredible news.

    Really, I don't even know why they're even worried about making a 25-man raid version with the same loot available now. Just keep it at 10 and you don't even have to worry about equal difficulties. Twenty-five is going to have to be extremely "lucrative" to justify it with one lock-out. I agree with other posts on here that it must have a lot to do with the guild leveling system. Complete a 25-man, guild raid = get some pretty great guild benefits.

    Or pug it in a 10, be unable to go in 25, and get kicked from your guild. lawlz.

    There's a lot of really interesting philosophical changes coming in the game. Looking forward to seeing if the new system increases the subscriber base. Even if it holds steady, that's pretty good. Cataclysm is going to change everything.

  17. #397

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    So instead of raiding the 10 and 25man version of the same instance on the same toon I'll instead do the same 10man on several different toons? And have 25man gear on all of them?

  18. #398

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    Quote Originally Posted by Fonzey
    Holy Crap, saw these changes get posted up - went AFK for a quick wank, and came back to find 400 replies ;D


    TMI

  19. #399

    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

    I would love to see an endgame scenario where, if you do not have the gear, bosses mushroom tattoo your forehead and tell you to go back and kill Anub Arak because you ain't ready for teh Marrowgar.

    I know it will never happen again, but shoot it may legitimize progression raiding again, even in 10 man only formats
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ner%27zhul&n=Paulkariya

  20. #400
    Herald of the Titans Snes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    Canada
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    Re: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements


    Bon Voyage, blizz haters.

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