Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

[Arthas]

hmmmm ??? ??? ??? ???

[davidwh2]

A slap in the FACE !

I totally dislike the same lockout. Being in a Raiding guild will get senseless.

The changes a great for my twink ... but when you play just one character it's TOTALLY BULLSHIT !!!!
And I like my Main but now you have to get atleast 2 85 chars to actually Raid.
Couz when the try system is comming back you will have NO practise at the new bosses.

WIN for casuals

TOTALLY BULLSHIT and a BIG reason to quit for a good Raider

how about trying to learn English?

[davidwh2]

haha seriously its wankers like you that ruin such games, not blizzard and not casuals but selfish greedy bastards like yourself that seem to think this game and many others was put onto the shelves just for you . Fucking wake up and start to realise its not all about you and the so called 1 sided community you place your self in.
Dont you see whats going on here? even blizzard dont want this to be a split community so my suggestion is either live with it or nerdrage yourself away from the game like you mentioned because no one will give a shit and neither will anyone come running to your door demanding that you come back to play it because you are the backbone of the game. Come to think of it you are quite pathetic and ive no doubt your not a very popular person in rl with such an attitude towards others.

this bears repeating.

who ever said this was a Hardcore raiding game anyway right?

you are right people like that make the game suck, not blizzard. their bad attitudes and over compesation makes me wonder if they have ever set foot in a raid, and if they did i wonder if they were carried.

i also feel the need to add that with there being so much to do in this game how people can ever call it casual?

i dont consider killing enemiese for 10 points of rep casual, or doing quests for achievements casual.

people like to make things sound so much worse then what they are.

[Nesingwary-Eliada]

It's alot easier to control and trust a 10man group than a 25 man raid so why would people bother to continue to work so hard for 25man loot if they can get same stuff in 10man raid? I know our tight-nit core 10man group within our guild that has run for 2 years now is something we look forward to each week. It is lot of fun and more relaxing than tryin to keep an eye on 25 people and opening up the Heroic mode and getting some nice gear has been so much fun! But the real sense of accomplishment comes from downing these bosses as a 25man group? It will be hard to raid as 25man group if people just say "screw this, i'll do 10man and get the same loot!"

LMFAO... okay... so wait:

1. its a lot easier to TRUST a 10-man group.
2. Its a lot easier to CONTROL a 10-man group.
3. Your 10 man core is a ton more mellow, fun, relaxed and enjoyable.
5. Its a pain to keep an eye on 25 people.

Why do you raid 25's again? Oh yeah, cause its more of an accomplishment. Silly me.

[timetonerdrage]

i didnt take the time to read 142 pages of other peoples opinions, so this has probably already been said.
anyway, here are my 2 cents.
10m=2 drops, 25m=5 drops
so u have a 20% chance on either to win a drop.
so, if u have the same chance in both modes, to win something that is exactly the same in both modes, why would anyone choose to do 25m if u get no benefit from it?
i mean, im not gonna take the time to gather 25 people if its not gonna count for anything.
it doesnt make sense to me why they would do this. thats kinda the point of 25 man raiding, to get better gear.
now, with that said, feel free to criticize me. i dont give a shit.

[Flowne]

I love it.

[Rocap]

Still hating this idea. Give us the options back, when wrath came, everyone was stoked that you could raid the same content in 10 and 25. Now, its no longer going to be an option, and everyone is just going to run 10's. All of the statements everyone has said are true, it is much easier to control a 10man, you progress more, and you feel better when you only have to fix one or two players instead of five or six. The work it took was well worth it though, as far as gear, achievements and what not. Now, it means nothing and its kinda sad. I get it, you want everyone to achieve the same content. It just makes no sense to let them achieve the same content, with half of the work.
IF YOU WANT WHAT I HAVE, PUT IN THE WORK I HAVE PUT IN TO GET IT.
Bottom line, I do not think this game is about me, I do not think this game is about them. Its about having fun, let us have fun the way WE want. If they WANT to see the content, then they (should) have to WANT to do the work to get there.
Being in a guild may mean something again, this is possible. Not if you nerf the content every patch. At the same time, the guild you are in is probably going to have 2-3 groups for 10man raids. Breaking more "unity" than even pugs are at this point. If I am in a 10man raiding guild, and we just happen to flop into a 25man one night, im not gonna care about that douches loot because he doesnt raid with me, even though we have been in the same raiding guild for 2 years, hes just another player to me now.

[Deleted]

I'm more like a casual player (i hardly ever do 25's) and i don't see the point of this crap. It's the stupidiest idea ever.

There was a reason why 25-man versions give better loot, it must have been mentioned by a lot of players here. The DIFFICULTY of setting up the raid! Not the difficulty of the raid itself, if you have 25 ppl that get 12/12 in 10-man, you'll get 12/12 in 25-man with them because the game was already well balanced. Problem is that to gather 25 people that play really good, it requires work, it requires patience.
For those who do only 10-man raids (like myself, only have 2 items from 25-man (non-heroic) on my main char), wasn't the 10-man loot enough to finish the 10-man content?!?! You gotta be kiddin' me, either u'r stupid and can't understand the mechanics of the game or... I don't even know what. I don't raid daily, 2-3 times a week AT MOST and i have 11/12 HC on icc10. Can't kill LK? Try again.. Maybe the problem isn't the gear you have, but the way you plan/do the battle.

Is that envy you guys feel when u see a char going trough dalaran with all items lvl 277? I like seeing people with that and thinking to myself "Man, this guy may have no life but at least he rocks at it. I would love having that trinket on my lock!". Guess what... Will i get it? No. Will i cry about that? No. He worked harder then me, he deserves it more then me. It's because of those people that this game is fun and still alive, those people really FEEL playing WoW, they don't play it like any other game that you can play with your friends.

You wanna play with your friends? Fine, go 10-man. Worse loot? What.. Isn't it enough for you 10-man guildies cry-babies?! F*ck ya then, who the hell cares, go cry to your mommy or wife about that.

I feel like a lot of the challenge this game meant to me when i started playing will simple disappear just because of this change. What if i enjoy playing both versions of the raid in the same week? I can't?! Wtf blizzard, open your eyes, i know you'r excited with your brand new Starcraft II but you could at least show some respect by the millions of players that pay you every single month to play WoW for years.
It's becomming more noob-friendly all the time. And that makes me sad, even though i'm probably another noob, i'd rather start ICC10 HC with all lvl 251 items then with lvl 264 ones because it was more challenging.

I'm even thinking of droping WoW due to theses changes, it just doesn't fit in my head that "everyone" will have top gear. Top gear was meant for top players, not for any random noob that plays just to have some fun when there's no work to do, like me.

Sad thing for me, i'll never do 25-man again because pugs of that? They'll never happen. You'r ruining the raid spirit and the joy of achieving the "impossible". And for those nutheads that say "i don't know what's your problem, it'll drop 5 pieces instead of 2, what u want?".. I mean.. You REALLY think that's an argument?!?! What about having less people of your class AND spec in the raid? You wouldn't take 2 rogues to a 10-man raid if u can take a rogue and a unholy dk (random classes/specs btw). Neither you would have two resto druids, like sometimes has to happen in 25-man, when u can have 1 and a holy pala instead. So, if your item drops you'll most probably get in 10-man. In 25-man i even shaked bout rolls, in 10-man sometimes i roll alone cuz no one else benefits from that item. There will cease to exist those DBW (Deathbringer's Will) rolls where like 9 ppl roll for it. In 10-man, 3 ppl at most would roll for it, it one of the ranged was a hunter. After a few runs, every1 would have it if u can keep the same group (in 10-man that's easy right?).

Hey, btw, why don't u create some 5-man instances with tier gear?

There are simply no arguments that can defend those changes, it's simply stupid and you all should admit it. Even Blizzard.

And don't waste your time, i'll probably never see this topic again, it even makes me sad to see so much people happy about it. Gratz, now you can be "top players" raiding twice a week while others waste much more time and need to coordinate large groups to be "the same".

[Mothdust]

I see this as a potential for the death of mid sized guilds. Already we are seeing The regular 25 man raid being dropped because of the core group not wanting to stuff up their raid " oh sorry we are 3 bosses in..you wont be geared enough and we don't want pugs for it..Maybe next week if son so cant come". Guilds that don't have enough to fill a regular 25 but far to many for 10 mans are going to have the more casual players leave for guilds that are willing to fill 25 man spots.
I see angry times ahead and great guilds falling apart.

[RTS]

I don't get the fuss about 'bad for 25-man hardcore players', if you'd disband your 25-man guild over these changes, like so many claim to do, you're simply stating that you don't truly care about 25 man raiding, you're just jealous of 10-man raiders.

If you'd truly be a hardcore player, you couldn't care less about these changes.

[Hydr8]

Here is the low-down for all of you:

10 Man Raiding:

Easy to get 10 people
Not as hard
Zomfg look I just 7 manned LK

25 Man Raiding:

Hard to get 25 good people
Hard to get 25 people to listen
Hard to get strats down, considering if ONE person screws up - you loose (heroic 25 speaking)


This is why the loot should be better, or would you rather hear this?

Hello, my name is john. I have a GS of 3400, All gem's and enchants. Wait a second... how do I target the boss?

Yea.

[Deleted]

Looking forward to it...

[Arcticsnow65]

It's called start up an alt and raid again, perhaps even in another role. As for the hardcore guilds, they'll still raid 25. What's your definition of hardcore? The really top guilds will continue to do it, imo. But it will be fun for everyone else in the world to be able to do 10 man etc.

[Cloux]

I think it's a great idea, all you guy's who disagree are just mad because the casual player's will have just as good gear as you do, get over it.

[Vargur]

It's not a necro.
It's an assessment.

These are the changes that killed raiding as we knew it, implicitly turning many people away from the game.