Shadow Priest Rotation

[Danii]

Heya,

so i can't seem to find any other thread.

I've been wondering why my dps is as low as it is atm. about 3-4k single target. And I think it's due to my rotation.
I've followed Muqq's shadow priest guide from Ensidia:

http://ensidia.com/forum_topic.php?f...topic_id=29927

I'm geared quite average about ilvl 232.

I used Poptisse's Holy Guide as well for my healing spec, and it seems great. I keep people up every time.
I'm better geared as shadow, but I think the dmg i do is too low.

I use rotation:
VampiricTouch -> Devouring plague -> Mind blast -> SW: Pain -> MindFlay and then i keep up the DoTs while mind blasting every time it's off CD and do SW: Death as an executer.

Any ideas?

[Keosen]

- First of all wrong start, you have to stack 5xSW and then apply SW:P.
- SW only when you are moving.
- When you get 4pc of T10 you can drop imp MB but still casting it on CD, and use MF as a filler.
- Keep your dots up as much as you can 90%-95% it's more than good.

Posting an armory link would help a lot.

And by the way, Shadowpriest.com has all the answers you need actually.

[Frmercury]

IV. Rotation

We have a simple, yet complex method of doing damage. We rely heavily on our three DoT’s for sustained damage while we have MB and MF as nuke and filler spells respectively. Accurately carrying our rotation is paramount to our DPS (obviously).

Opening Sequences:
VT ~ MB ~ MF ~ DP ~ SW:P
or
VT ~ DP ~ MF ~ SW:P ~ MB

-The first gets Replenishment out immediately and puts up DP with SWx5, while the second gets DoTs up quick and rolling. Either way is fine as your opener has almost no effect on your overall DPS in a fight.

With BM
MF ~ MF (two ticks) ~ VT ~ DP ~ SW:P ~ MB

-This will get BM to proc early in the opener to get up DoTs with the extra Haste.

Without MB
VT ~ DP ~ MF ~ SW:P

In all of these SW:P is cast in the latter part. This is done for two reasons; the first is to get five stack of Shadow Weaving and the second is to allow all raid buffs and debuffs to be applied to assure that SW:P is going up as strong as possible.


Priorities:

Think of Shadow DPS, although there is a ‘rotation’ you’ll fall into, as a hierarchy of priorities:


Number 1:
Vampiric Touch - Cast so that it lands .1 to .5 seconds after the VT currently on the target ends. This means being aware of it's cast time and requires practice to get it right. DO NOT CLIP under any circumstances.

Number 2:
Devouring Plague - Cast only after the DP currently on the target falls off. DO NOT CLIP under most circumstances.

Number 3 and 4:
Mind Blast
-With 4pc T10 you will only use MB when it does not conflict with VT or DP recasts and MFx3. The best time I've found is right after a DoT recast. It's not paramount that you cast on CD basically, just where it fits nicely.
-With 4pc T10 and certain levels of gear you will drop MB from your rotation; you will find out if this is right for you in the FAQ section
-Without 4pc T10 it is Number 3 priority and should be cast on CD unless VT or DP need to be recast. In that case cast the DoT and cast MB immediately after.

Mind Flay
- With 4pc T10 Number 3 basically. You can clip after 2 ticks for VT and DP recasts.
- Without 4pc T10 it's basically a filler spell used when you don't have to recast VT, DP, or MB.

Shadow Word: Pain - Is cast in the opener, but then Pain and Suffering will refresh SW:P every time you cast MF on your target. Shadow Word: Pain should only be recast when you gain certain buffs or your target gains certain debuffs.

The full list of buffs and debuffs that warrant a SW:P recast can be found here: Harb_ID @ http://shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=23642


More info in my Signature.

[Keosen]

MF ~ MF (two ticks) ~ VT ~ DP ~ SW:P ~ MB

-This will get BM to proc early in the opener to get up DoTs with the extra Haste..

No need to bother with clipping MF anymore since haste went really high and the 4pc T10 makes MF even faster
PS: No serious SP would choose BM over Spellpower.

In all of these SW:P is cast in the latter part. This is done for two reasons; the first is to get five stack of Shadow Weaving and the second is to allow all raid buffs and debuffs to be applied to assure that SW:P is going up as strong as possible.

Hard refresh of SW:P only if YOURs crit modifiers change no reason to delay the cast or re-cast it, any other buff/debuff (except some boss skills that need to be hard refresh SW:P) will be recalculated after the MF refresh.

Mind Flay
- With 4pc T10 Number 3 basically. You can clip after 2 ticks for VT and DP recasts.

Terrible advice.
With high haste and 4T10 it's too hard to be precise and clip the MF after the second cast, assuming that you also dont have 0ms and/or FPS problems you should never try to clip MF any longer, we used to do it in the past no longer needed.

And last but not least don't drop MB of your rotation there is no math supporting it's a dps gain.

[fabian]

No need to bother with clipping MF anymore since haste went really high and the 4pc T10 makes MF even faster
PS: No serious SP would choose BM over Spellpower.


Hard refresh of SW:P only if YOURs crit modifiers change no reason to delay the cast or re-cast it, any other buff/debuff (except some boss skills that need to be hard refresh SW:P) will be recalculated after the MF refresh.

Terrible advice.
With high haste and 4T10 it's too hard to be precise and clip the MF after the second cast, assuming that you also dont have 0ms and/or FPS problems you should never try to clip MF any longer, we used to do it in the past no longer needed.

And last but not least don't drop MB of your rotation there is no math supporting it's a dps gain.

I want to say two things, first, opening rotations have very little effect on your dps, so arguing over it is not worth it.

Second, yes, there is math that proves you can drop MB to get a dps gain, but there is also math that disproves it. It is a variable thing that is dependent on way to many variables to have a given rule though, and should probably done a per encounter basis.

[Solia]

Is that 3-4k DPS on a target dummy? or 10 man/25 man?

I top out at about 4k (target dummy) with mostly full set of welfare gear (Tri badge gear/232 t9 and 264 Honor pieces) which goes up to about 5k+ on most single target raid fights.

Seeing you gear (esp Trinkets) would help see if it's really an issue of your casts or gear.

My alt's gears that I'm referring to:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...crest&n=Soulia

IMO, to make optimal use of NIC, the opening matters GREATLY.

[fabian]

IMO, to make optimal use of NIC, the opening matters GREATLY.

That is the only time when opening rotation matters, and the only thing that matters is the use of NIC.

[Abandon]

For Nevermelting Ice Crystal I generally start with:

Mind Blast
Mind Flay
Nevermelting Ice Crystal
Vampiric Touch
Shadow Word: Pain
Devouring Plague

This gives all of your DoTs the 30% crit chance, before you apply any abilities which can eat them up.

[Keosen]

Second, yes, there is math that proves you can drop MB to get a dps gain

No m8 there isn't any maths that proves it.
I would like to see a link if there is something i'm missing though.

[Abandon]

No m8 there isn't any maths that proves it.
I would like to see a link if there is something i'm missing though.

...yes, there is. Eventually with enough haste it is a waste of time to cast Mind Blast as Mind Flay does the same or higher damage over the same amount of time. This is of course with the 4 set bonus.

If you don't know something, don't call the other person a liar.

[fabian]

No m8 there isn't any maths that proves it.
I would like to see a link if there is something i'm missing though.

http://shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=24328

It is buried in that thread, but it is in there. As for a quick way to see the theoretical times when you can drop MB:
http://elitistjerks.com/f77/t84746-s...riends/p7/#168

[Optek]

No m8 there isn't any maths that proves it.
I would like to see a link if there is something i'm missing though.

4piece + troll racial + casting MB = dps loss
4piece + lust + casting MB = dps loss
4piece + 4700ish raid buffed(depends on haste also, higher haste means you need less spellpower) spellpower + casting MB = dps loss
4piece + haste pot + casting MB = dps loss

[Weena2]

http://www.shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=26240

Use mind blast as a filler, rather than having to use it every CD.

[Keosen]

http://shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=24328

It is buried in that thread, but it is in there. As for a quick way to see the theoretical times when you can drop MB:
http://elitistjerks.com/f77/t84746-s...riends/p7/#168

Both links that you provided states the exact opposite, only in ideal situation there is a small DPS gain by dropping MB.
The only situation you should drop MB entirely is when you are under Heroism/Bloodlust or any high haste buff (racial,pots,eng gloves).

...yes, there is. Eventually with enough haste it is a waste of time to cast Mind Blast as Mind Flay does the same or higher damage over the same amount of time. This is of course with the 4 set bonus.

If you don't know something, don't call the other person a liar.

MF becomes better around 1500 haste/4800SP do you know anyone beeing even remotely close to this?
Ignorant sp. sadly you belong to the majority of the bad shadowpriests out there.

http://www.shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=26240

Use mind blast as a filler, rather than having to use it every CD.

It's funny that people doesn't even bother to read the links their posting, they just googling "Drop mind blast" the grab the first result and posst it.
Take 5min and read the whole text my friend.

MF dpet > MB dpet only in ideal situation and we're talking for less than 0.3% DPS gain, even 150ms or low FPS will make you lose DPS by dropping MB.

[fabian]

4piece + troll racial + casting MB = dps loss
4piece + lust + casting MB = dps loss
4piece + 4700ish raid buffed(depends on haste also, higher haste means you need less spellpower) spellpower + casting MB = dps loss
4piece + haste pot + casting MB = dps loss

All a MF2 has to do to be equal dps as MB would be do as 1.11x as much damage, which is quite easy to do since MF scales better than MB. This is more prevalent as you gain more haste because you can easily get MB to go under the 1s GCD, which caps MB dps to that of a 1s MB even though you might have a 0.5s MB.

Both links that you provided states the exact opposite, only in ideal situation there is a small DPS gain by dropping MB.
The only situation you should drop MB entirely is when you are under Heroism/Bloodlust or any high haste buff (racial,pots,eng gloves).

MF becomes better around 1500 haste/4800SP do you know anyone beeing even remotely close to this?
Ignorant sp. sadly you belong to the majority of the bad shadowpriests out there.

Actually looking through the thread instead of the first page will result in finding more accurate math. Not to mention that I did mention it is per encounter basis.

Also, did you even try the 2nd link? Because at 2.5k SP and 750 haste, you can theoretically drop MB without under Heroism/BL. The dps loss would be because of more difficulty in casting not that MB does more damage.

I suggest not calling people ignorant because they disagree with you and provide links, especially since you're not providing links yourself.

[Modgudr]

PS: No serious SP would choose BM over Spellpower.

From: http://www.shadowpriest.com/viewtopi...201757#p201763
Enchant: Mighty Spellpower (63.0)
Enchant: Black Magic (66.64)

Give how consistent BM is in coming up pretty much as soon as its GCD is down, unless you are using a staff (and I cannot think of a staff that would beat 1HD/OH combination right now, even Heroic Archus and with the better SP enchant), no serious SP would choose SP over BM. Just because it is RNG does not mean it is bad; it just means you need to adjust your style of play to take it into account.

Hard refresh of SW:P only if YOURs crit modifiers change no reason to delay the cast or re-cast it, any other buff/debuff (except some boss skills that need to be hard refresh SW:P) will be recalculated after the MF refresh.

The crit debuff from scorch/frost/shadowbolt gets reclaculated on refresh? When did this happen? Same question for ToW, SancRet and others.

With high haste and 4T10 it's too hard to be precise and clip the MF after the second cast, assuming that you also dont have 0ms and/or FPS problems you should never try to clip MF any longer, we used to do it in the past no longer needed.

This cannot be stated enough. Very small margin in which to clip with 4T10, and if the spellcast gets there before the last tick you lose more than you would (potentially) have gained. Not worth it.

Number 1:
Vampiric Touch - Cast so that it lands .1 to .5 seconds after the VT currently on the target ends. This means being aware of it's cast time and requires practice to get it right. DO NOT CLIP under any circumstances.

Number 2:
Devouring Plague - Cast only after the DP currently on the target falls off. DO NOT CLIP under most circumstances.

The assertion that you should never clip VT/DP is not quite accurate; if you just gained a large amount of haste, for example, is a good time to clip, especially if it gives you the chance to get extra hasted VT or DP ticks in before your buff ends, as in the case of Heroism. However, unless your haste or crit bonus just jumped significantly, you should not clip these spells.

[wasniahC]

/cast [nochanneling: Mind Flay] <spell>
I'll just leave that there.

[Optek]

crit doesn't get refreshed for SW:P
only time you would clip a dot is during a haste increase(lust/racial/gloves/pot/fight mechanics) and you would clip again right before the buff ends(depends on haste/spellpower, but it's a very small increase)
or a crit increase(trinket,potion,fight mechanic)

[ralphie]

No serious SP would choose not to proc replenishment.

[wasniahC]

As I understand it, with refreshing buffs on SW:P, it refreshes its damage according to the debuffs on the target, your haste, and your spellpower level.

+%damage boosts do not get refreshed, and neither does crit rating. That means that you should recast it when you have 5stacks shadow weaving, high crit (nevermelting ice crystal), and any buffs from the fight (eg rune of power, iron council) that might help.
Also, if you can get tricks of the trade on you for that one shadow word pain, all the better.