RL and Loot

[grimkiller]

This is probably an overdone topic, but my searches didn't relaly pull up what I'm looking for.

When I put together raids, such as 25man ICC, our guild, who is short on active members, has to pug anywhere from 5-10 spots. Because of this, we use the loot system of open rolls MS > OS based on performance.
I don't like rewarding bad players in hopes that they will try harder, get better, and improve the community (far fetched, I know because alot of people just rage).

Anyway, the most recent issue we had was on Saurfang.
The 1hand sword dropped, and a frost DK and a hunter rolled.
The hunter won the roll, but because it was a melee weapon, I gave it to the DK.
The hunter shit a brick about how that was unfair, but my explination was that I do not reward ranged weapons to rogues/wars over hunters. He leaves the raid, and about that time it was pretty much over anyway (due to some fail pugs we just didn't care to replace because it was late).

So anyway, what I'm asking is, as a RL who generally has a decent amount of pugs, what loot system would you recommend? If we have a full guild run, which hasn't happened on 25 in a few weeks, we do Officer's Loot, and that works fine, but with Pugs I don't see this as an option.

[Aragen]

what you are doing now is more than fine and what I suggest to be the standard for all PuGs keep with it and dont change it for anyone

[loveshack]

In our pugs, we give priority to the people that preform well for their gear level, and do stupid shit. Once the good guys get atleast one piece of loot, the failasses get to roll. If they dont like it, we tell them to start getting their shit together, and quit bitching, or leave.

Works for us. ;D

[terrih91]

i use the same loot system for pugs ur doing fine its just people nerd rage when something they want drops and they dont understand ur reasoning of why they were passed up.

[loveshack]

edit to my last post: DONT do stupid shit.

Dosnt let me edit my posts for some reason.

[galaxiah]

Your system seems fine. What you need to do is tell the whole raid, before you even start, the rules. Don't leave anything out like the weapon thing you mentioned. Hell, just make a macro for it.

People are much less to complain if they know whats coming before hand, if they don't like it they can leave, and you can find someone who acts like an adult. Good luck.

[frozenslab]

that same hunter would have screamed at you if you'd given a ranged weapon to a rogue or warrior, so in that particular case you're in a no win situation as far as that hunter. What you did do, is what most rational people would do as well. The hunter is just a tool.

[Stormrex]

Your system seems fine. What you need to do is tell the whole raid, before you even start, the rules. Don't leave anything out like the weapon thing you mentioned. Hell, just make a macro for it.

People are much less to complain if they know whats coming before hand, if they don't like it they can leave, and you can find someone who acts like an adult. Good luck.

This is pretty much how my guild works when we have to pug a decent amount of people. For sure, be clear and go over loot rules before the raid.

[grimkiller]

Thanks for the reply guys.
This was the system my and the other officers agreed on, and I felt it was the most fair solution.
I try to make all present aware of loot from the get-go with a /rw, so if they don't see it for whatever reason, sucks to be them, I guess.
I've had people tell me I should do straight up open rolls since the content has been out long enough and it shouldn't matter who gets what, but I just don't feel a terrible player should get something that's not exactly itemized for them, or in my example, something used as a stat stick over someone who actually uses the full potential of the item.

Anywho, I will keep doing what I'm doing.
Hopefully the fail pugs will put me on /ignore, because I have ran out of room on mine. ;D

[M1kra]

First of all I am a Hunter

I would argue that a Hunter should be allowed to roll for melee weapons. A melee weapon is a bigger upgrade to a Hunter than a ranged weapon is to the other classes. Since obviously the stats from a ranged weapon is alot lower than the stats on melee weapons. However on one-handed weapons the Hunter must have another one already and ofcourse the same rule applies to the melee that wants one-handed weapons also. On two-handers the Hunters have same priority as everyone else, but mostly only compete with Druids because they are the only ones that should use agility based two-handers.

There is also another reason why melee shouldn't compete with Hunters on the ranged weapons and that is because there is a Thrown weapon from emblem in each tier which Rogues and Warriors can buy and therefor the ranged weapon drops in the raids aren't that much of an upgrade for them.

[Rehea]

i bet the same hunter would be pissed if he lost the roll on a ranged weapon that was a upgrade for him over a warrior

[Geekbustarz]

The 1hand sword dropped, and a frost DK and a hunter rolled.
The hunter won the roll, but because it was a melee weapon, I gave it to the DK.
The hunter shit a brick about how that was unfair, but my explination was that I do not reward ranged weapons to rogues/wars over hunters. He leaves the raid, and about that time it was pretty much over anyway (due to some fail pugs we just didn't care to replace because it was late).

Well anyone would get pissed, Just don't forget to state lootrules at the start. If you don't like the rules, just tell them to GTFO.

[Geekbustarz]

First of all I am a Hunter

I would argue that a Hunter should be allowed to roll for melee weapons. A melee weapon is a bigger upgrade to a Hunter than a ranged weapon is to the other classes. Since obviously the stats from a ranged weapon is alot lower than the stats on melee weapons. However on one-handed weapons the Hunter must have another one already and ofcourse the same rule applies to the melee that wants one-handed weapons also. On two-handers the Hunters have same priority as everyone else, but mostly only compete with Druids because they are the only ones that should use agility based two-handers.

There is also another reason why melee shouldn't compete with Hunters on the ranged weapons and that is because there is a Thrown weapon from emblem in each tier which Rogues and Warriors can buy and therefor the ranged weapon drops in the raids aren't that much of an upgrade for them.

I don't agree at all actually. For you a melee weapon just a stat-stick, for a melee class, the damage is more important. It's the exact same as warriors / rogues uses ranged weapon as stat-sticks(stat-weapons). And they will probably gain more from it than you would.

[frozenslab]

First of all I am a Hunter

I would argue that a Hunter should be allowed to roll for melee weapons. A melee weapon is a bigger upgrade to a Hunter than a ranged weapon is to the other classes. Since obviously the stats from a ranged weapon is alot lower than the stats on melee weapons. However on one-handed weapons the Hunter must have another one already and ofcourse the same rule applies to the melee that wants one-handed weapons also. On two-handers the Hunters have same priority as everyone else, but mostly only compete with Druids because they are the only ones that should use agility based two-handers.

There is also another reason why melee shouldn't compete with Hunters on the ranged weapons and that is because there is a Thrown weapon from emblem in each tier which Rogues and Warriors can buy and therefor the ranged weapon drops in the raids aren't that much of an upgrade for them.

I'd let you roll on a 2h weapon as a stat stick but the one handed weapon is going to melee unless none of them need it. It's a far more useful upgrade for them. Sorry, but you have less priority on a stat stick than someone looking for a weapon upgrade. Get used to it.

[jtroia]

If a 1-hander dropped I would of done the exact same as you. but, if a 2-handed weapon with agility I would only give it to a hunter or feral druid.

[Deleted]

We had the same problem in a PuG I was in on my alt last week.

We came to the conclusion that, you won't give a Rogue a bow over a hunter, nor a melee weapon to a Hunter over a Rogue

[Lazarusx]

As long as loot rules are established ahead of time there should be no issues. Unfortunatly it usually takes an incident for certian issues to be considered and you also need to be careful about making looting overly complicated and confusing.

Thankfully with cataclysm alot of this confusion will be cleared up as agility 1handers will only be for rogues/hunters/shamans and there will be clear cut strength 1handers for frost DKs and /shudder warriors.

Unfortunatly this also means larger loot tables and more waiting week after week for bosses to drop different loot. I can't help but laugh that this post is about "thats a hunter loot!" ah vanillia.

[akihabara]

I registered just to say this.

The sword we are talking about is this one?

http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/50412/bloodvenom-blade/

Then you was an idiot. No doubt about it. The Hunter deserve it, he won and he should have gotten it. Is clearly a usefull item for both the (dk and hunter).

The stats would have benefit the hunter, he won the loot, you should have gave it to him.

You fail in the moment you "choose" to assign loot under your ( fail ) logic.

[Eurytos]

Loot problems always come from Hunters. Their arguments are the most illogical.

If something is a stat stick, you dont get priority. Guns and Bows are stat sticks to non-hunters, they dont get priority.

In a non-guild run, Hunters dont get priority on any 1h or 2h. That would be my rule. 1 mad hunter is less of a hassle than 3, 4, or 5 mad melee. And as a RL of pugs, reducing hassle is the biggest priority.

[HavocLock]

You could have the most absurd loot rules out there, but if you actually state how loot consideration is done from the start, it eliminates drama.

Oh yeah and Blizz sucks for making agility a desirable stat for so many specs.