Mana/Haste Cap

[TruffleMuffin]

Thought I would start this thread to discuss a problem I have been having recently in my raids playing Arcane.

Armoury for reference: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...eard&cn=Isumir

Recently, I have found that when I am pushing my DPS as much as I possibly can, proc fishing (never more than 7 AB's), CD stacking, pre-potting, etc etc. That towards the end of a fight I am struggling for mana. Everything goes fine until towards the last minute or so of the fight, where I find myself about 30% mana or less with a good 30s-40s before a Torrent/Gem/Evoc is off cool down. The fights this is particularly apparent on are just the straight nukes. Festergut, Saurfang, Queen.

Now, for mana I am using Arcane Torrent at about 93% mana, then a gem at about 85%, Evoc at about 35% (where possible on the last second of a haste CD), then whenever there off cool down.

My thought about the problem is that it would seem as though my haste is too high. I.e. I can cast too much between Mana Backs. My raid always has replenishment, but still I struggle. Fights in which I struggle I have resorted to switching to mage armour if my mana is dipping below 15% until I can get some mana back from one of my own cool downs. Innervates are available in the raid but often saved for a healer on Saurfang or themselves on Festergut/Queen. In truth I don't like taking them as it seems to me that I should be able to manage the mana myself unless I get killed and am Battle ressed.

I was wondering if anyone else was having similar difficulty? If so how have you gone about resolving it. This relates only to Arcane, with Fire I have no mana issues, but my gear isn't well orientated for it and I am dropping about 2-3k DPS switching to Fire for those fights. This is in part gear, but also experience with the spec. Both can be resolved over time, but until I have the gear to support the spec I am not going to be playing it since my DPS is so much lower.

[Rugz]

If so how have you gone about resolving it.

Arcane = mana management, change your rotation.

[takolin]

Don't fish for procs if you can't handle the mana cost.
Use mana CDs sooner.
Spec 5/5 arc concentration rather than 4/5.

And give that DFO to me.

[Swizzle]

use evocate before you use your other CDs. it is your highest mana refund ability and you want to have it up as many times as possible per fight. also, it's easier to do evo first since you are popping all your CDs at the start, which is very mana intensive, and an early evocate negates this mana abuse.

also, in those later moments if you still have issues, switch to a lower AB rotation.

lastly, regem your gloves, cloak, and boots.

PS: your biggest problem is that you are a male blood elf. quit being bad and go either female or troll. male BE is a 400 DPS loss.

[riccou]

I used to experience kind of the same thing, but in the end you are just managing your mana wrong. I was the "2nd" mage in the raid so the other mage got a innervate from 1 of our druids, but innervates are only 7k mana...you burn through that in 20 secs tops.

You should go fire. You get more mobility, you have 3 and maybe even more instants to do while moving and jumping around between fireblast, living bomb, and whatever hot streaks you get...plus it's more mana friendly. The one draw back, at my gear where I'm 80%+ crit on fireballs and even higher on living bomb and pyros...my mana does go down with not a lot of options to get it back up with longer cd's on evo, but a mana gem does last you longer than arcane.

[riccou]

Also your spec is retarded. Dont get slow. Also, the reason you spec into frost is to get icyveins, yet you elected not to get the cd reduced for it and get reduced frostbolt cast time?

[TruffleMuffin]

Also your spec is retarded. Dont get slow. Also, the reason you spec into frost is to get icyveins, yet you elected not to get the cd reduced for it and get reduced frostbolt cast time?

Gobsmacked. didn't notice.

Slow is good for me for a number of reasons which I shall not go into here.

use evocate before you use your other CDs. it is your highest mana refund ability and you want to have it up as many times as possible per fight. also, it's easier to do evo first since you are popping all your CDs at the start, which is very mana intensive, and an early evocate negates this mana abuse.

also, in those later moments if you still have issues, switch to a lower AB rotation.

lastly, regem your gloves, cloak, and boots.

PS: your biggest problem is that you are a male blood elf. quit being bad and go either female or troll. male BE is a 400 DPS loss.

I switch to the lower AB rotation, thanks for the advice on the Evoc. Whats wrong with my Boots? the +7 SP bonus is worth it I thought? The other two I just haven't been bothered to change as I will be upgrading them soon enough and the 10/20 DPS isnt so much of an issue for me until I'm running 277.

[Swizzle]

correction: boots should say "ring", as in your ring of rapid ascent is gemmed wrong.

[Navi]

And what the hell does being a male Belf have to with anything?

[Swizzle]

And what the hell does being a male Belf have to with anything?

:-\

[Navi]

:-\

to do*

blargh.

[Valanna]

The one draw back, at my gear where I'm 80%+ crit on fireballs and even higher on living bomb and pyros...my mana does go down with not a lot of options to get it back up with longer cd's on evo, but a mana gem does last you longer than arcane.

If you're referring to getting mana trouble with Burnout, you either spec terribly wrong, or you do something else to ravage your mana. Master of Elements gives back 30% of the base mana cost of a critical spell, whereas burnout burns a 5% extra, which means a 25% mana back on crits. I never ever had trouble with mana while playing fire. The biggest dps gain I notice when being fire is not having to evocate.

[Swizzle]

FYI, i doubt the fact that with 80%+ on fireball crit you are running into mana issues, since that would require near full BiS...and at that point having mana troubles means you're just fucking awful...which means you don't have near full BiS.

shenanigans have been called.

[riccou]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...iend&cn=riccou

You guys are retarded. You can go look at worldoflogs parses from top fire mages, yes your biggest mana gained back is from Master of Elements by a large margin, then replenishment, and Empowered Fire only gives ~20% of the mana you get from Master of Elements, and all these top parses....THE MAGES ARE GETTING INNERVATES. More crits, means more pyros...an instant cast that still cost mana. Unless you have actually tried it, and have the gear to compare with what I'm talking about, you have no idea.

Here is last weeks raid parses http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1zll46mly4bj6j1u/ , I had several top 40 parses, including number 3 for fire on Lady DW.

[Swizzle]

looking at your gear confirmed you are an idiot.

gemmed poorly (lol purifieds in a 5 spellpower socket bonus), chanted poorly (lol icewalker), geared poorly (nice off-set chest when t10 is BiS), and pure crit stacking to the point where your haste is at ulduar levels...yeah, totally confirmed it for me.

those mages get innervates beacuse they want top parses, not because they need them.

[riccou]

Rawr can only take you so far. If I'm not critting, I'm not doing damage, regardless what rawr says. Ever chance I have to get more crit, even thru some purified gems, yes I'm doing it. Again, go look at the top parse mages, Logoz, Pierit, etc etc, they are gem purified even for a +5 socket bonus. You can call us all idiots, we will just laugh at you.

[Swizzle]

Rawr can only take you so far. If I'm not critting, I'm not doing damage, regardless what rawr says. Ever chance I have to get more crit, even thru some purified gems, yes I'm doing it. Again, go look at the top parse mages, Logoz, Pierit, etc etc, they are gem purified even for a +5 socket bonus. You can call us all idiots, we will just laugh at you.

yeah, cause 5.5 crit rating is more crit than 10 rating :.

anyway, logoz IS an idiot. he plays on my server, i know him better than you kind sir. anyway, raiding rainbows stacks raids and buffs on him FOR THE SOLE REASON of him getting top parses. 2 hand of salvs, an innervate, and 3 PIs on saurfang with only minimal add damage (roughly the amount of one fireball per phase coupled with LB explosions) clearly show that he knows how to play his mage better.

listen. your crit is high, bravo, but your gear is nowhere near BiS and is actually retarded.

also, calling someone who progressed quicker and further than oneself an idiot isn't something i recommend you do in the future.

[Siddarta]

yeah, cause 5.5 crit rating is more crit than 10 rating :.

anyway, logoz IS an idiot. he plays on my server, i know him better than you kind sir. anyway, raiding rainbows stacks raids and buffs on him FOR THE SOLE REASON of him getting top parses. 2 hand of salvs, an innervate, and 3 PIs on saurfang with only minimal add damage (roughly the amount of one fireball per phase coupled with LB explosions) clearly show that he knows how to play his mage better.

listen. your crit is high, bravo, but your gear is nowhere near BiS and is actually retarded.

also, calling someone who progressed quicker and further than oneself an idiot isn't something i recommend you do in the future.

I liked your old avatar better :-\

[Swizzle]

they took it out because it was 6 Kbs too big. apparently there are people who actually check that :-\.

[Siddarta]

If I moderated these forums I would be deleting the topic with the mage with heroic reign asking about what trinkets to use, instead of slapping your wrists about 6 KBs.