Mana/Haste Cap

[rathofvol]

That post is incredibly irrelevant, as is someone's theorycrafting intelligence if they constantly out-dps the smartest players. There's no reason to believe he's doing any part of the fights wrong, so I dont see why you'd even bring that crap up. If that's the argument you have to make for defending calling him an idiot then I rest my case.

[TruffleMuffin]

Have fun trying to be the internet tough guy tho, I hear it pays well.

So does your Avatar. I'm just pissed your hijacking my thread to have what seems to be a pissing contest between Swizzle and another Mage, who isn't even you.

You seem to have taken Swizzles personal opinion of another player as some kind of battle call to defend someone else. It also seems unclear to me if you are actually that person. Its as if your trying to make it sound like you are the mage doing 14k DPS on Saurfang HC.

Your posts in this thread have been completely off topic, and unhelpful in the least. You are a child who came online to start a fight. An internet tough guy.

DirewolfX, can you please lock this thread.

[Swizzle]

That post is incredibly irrelevant, as is someone's theorycrafting intelligence if they constantly out-dps the smartest players. There's no reason to believe he's doing any part of the fights wrong, so I dont see why you'd even bring that crap up. If that's the argument you have to make for defending calling him an idiot then I rest my case.

to clarify, i'm calling him an idiot for this:

Rawr can only take you so far. If I'm not critting, I'm not doing damage, regardless what rawr says. Ever chance I have to get more crit, even thru some purified gems, yes I'm doing it. Again, go look at the top parse mages, Logoz, Pierit, etc etc, they are gem purified even for a +5 socket bonus. You can call us all idiots, we will just laugh at you.

the bolded part especially. by his logic, 5.5 crit rating or 7 crit rating is more beneficial than 10 crit rating, since there is no law preventing people from putting potent ametrine in blue sockets. if you do, the debate goes to 4.5 crit vs. 5 SP. in a BiS set-up, crit is valued higher than sp by a margin, making 4.5 crit rating worth more than 5 SP. you see? i can actually use math to support my reasoning. saying fire mages NEED innervate to do DPS is idiotic. having a 277 chest that isn't tier is idiotic. using ZOMG THIS DUDE WHO DOES TOP DEEPS DOES IT as a qualifier is idiotic. basically, the whole premise of his argument is terrible.

i didn't start this pissing match, but i sure as hell will end it. begging for innervates so one does not have to evocate is not what the class is balanced around and it isn't something that should be relied on to do your job. saying anything else is fraudulent and idiotic. the only arguments given against this are links of anecdotal evidence which show buff stacking on single players to pull to parses, no math or concrete logic behind it. my dick is big enough without having it measured on the internet through my NUMBAHS, but my intellect is something outside that realm.

being able to do the math yourself is actually more intellectually taxing than looking up on WoL and copy/pasting what others do. that's where idiocy stems from. that, is where this argument ends.

[rathofvol]

I see Swizzle constantly belittling people on these forums, and it really irritates me. MMA is all about respect, hence me defending Riccou since he was blatantly disrespected.

Sorry for derailing your thread. All you need to do for mana management is switch your rotation to AB3MB instead of AB4MB and the DPM drastically increases while the MPS decreases.

[rathofvol]

i didn't start this pissing match, but i sure as hell will end it. begging for innervates so one does not have to evocate is not what the class is balanced around and it isn't something that should be relied on to do your job. saying anything else is fraudulent and idiotic. the only arguments given against this are links of anecdotal evidence which show buff stacking on single players to pull to parses, no math or concrete logic behind it. my dick is big enough without having it measured on the internet through my NUMBAHS, but my intellect is something outside that realm.

Nobody ever said these mages were relying on innervates to do their job, but when it only takes a boomkin a GCD to use it, why wouldn't they? If it increases RDPS without any drawbacks then its something that should be done. And you also got 3 Power Infusions tonight on Saurfang, so QQ more about buff stacking to increase the numbers... you don't sound like a hypocrite or anything :

[Swizzle]

I see Swizzle constantly belittling people on these forums, and it really irritates me. MMA is all about respect, hence me defending Riccou since he was blatantly disrespected.

Sorry for derailing your thread. All you need to do for mana management is switch your rotation to AB3MB instead of AB4MB and the DPM drastically increases while the MPS decreases.

he was blatantly disrespected AFTER he blatantly disrespected others.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...iend&cn=riccou

You guys are retarded. You can go look at worldoflogs parses from top fire mages, yes your biggest mana gained back is from Master of Elements by a large margin, then replenishment, and Empowered Fire only gives ~20% of the mana you get from Master of Elements, and all these top parses....THE MAGES ARE GETTING INNERVATES. More crits, means more pyros...an instant cast that still cost mana. Unless you have actually tried it, and have the gear to compare with what I'm talking about, you have no idea.

Here is last weeks raid parses http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1zll46mly4bj6j1u/ , I had several top 40 parses, including number 3 for fire on Lady DW.

check time stamp and compare it with:

looking at your gear confirmed you are an idiot.

gemmed poorly (lol purifieds in a 5 spellpower socket bonus), chanted poorly (lol icewalker), geared poorly (nice off-set chest when t10 is BiS), and pure crit stacking to the point where your haste is at ulduar levels...yeah, totally confirmed it for me.

those mages get innervates beacuse they want top parses, not because they need them.

a good 21 minute interlude between the first shot and the second.

i belittle people who deserve it. have i belittled truffle or have i answered his question? feel free to look through my post count and you will see the help far outweighs the belittling.
seems people want to defend themselves and others, but expect me to sit there and take it. in the immortal words of the Boondocks: you eat a *bleep* *bleep*, YOU eat a *bleep*.

FYI, i would be the guy in the suit.

Nobody ever said these mages were relying on innervates to do their job, but when it only takes a boomkin a GCD to use it, why wouldn't they? If it increases RDPS without any drawbacks then its something that should be done. And you also got 3 Power Infusions tonight on Saurfang, so QQ more about buff stacking to increase the numbers... you don't sound like a hypocrite or anything :

guessing you haven't actually read most of the thread. i may have gotten 3 PIs, but i sure as hell didn't ask for them. PI goes to the top caster DPS at that time, which happened to be me. if i'm being hypocritical right now, may the lord strike me down.

*checks sky*

*looks around*

guess i'm still here.

[Arcanefodder]

to clarify, i'm calling him an idiot for this:
the bolded part especially. by his logic, 5.5 crit rating or 7 crit rating is more beneficial than 10 crit rating, since there is no law preventing people from putting potent ametrine in blue sockets. if you do, the debate goes to 4.5 crit vs. 5 SP. in a BiS set-up, crit is valued higher than sp by a margin, making 4.5 crit rating worth more than 5 SP. you see? i can actually use math to support my reasoning. saying fire mages NEED innervate to do DPS is idiotic. having a 277 chest that isn't tier is idiotic. using ZOMG THIS DUDE WHO DOES TOP DEEPS DOES IT as a qualifier is idiotic. basically, the whole premise of his argument is terrible.

12SP 10 Spirit
(+5 SP)

23SP (23 points)
________________


12SP + 10 Spirit ( 5.5Crit with only MA)+ 5 SP

17.5 Points
+5 points
_____
23.5points total with only MA. Already worth more on paper than pure SP or potent depending on gear.


(Edit, realise bad maths, don't care.)


It can tip in the favor of purified in ever 5+ blue slot very easily due to spirit contributing to regen and scaling with raid buffs. And since the argument was obviously about purified vs. Runed since neither of you are in BIS gear, Purified is mathematically the winner here. And what if he is using that chest to temporarily satisfy a hit requirement?

Thats like saying you arent allowed to use Belt of Ommision over Crushing Coldwraith just because it is BIS.

[Siddarta]

12SP 10 Spirit
(+5 SP)

23SP (23 points)
________________


12SP + 10 Spirit ( 5.5Crit with only MA)+ 5 SP

17.5 Points
+5 points
_____
23.5points total with only MA. Already worth more on paper than pure SP or potent depending on gear.


It can tip in the favor of purified in ever 5+ blue slot very easily due to spirit contributing to regen and scaling with raid buffs. And since the argument was obviously about purified vs. Runed since neither of you are in BIS gear, Purified is mathematically the winner here. And what if he is using that chest to temporarily satisfy a hit requirement?

Thats like saying you arent allowed to use Belt of Ommision over Crushing Coldwraith just because it is BIS.

So your saying you rather have 5.5 crit then 5 SP as arcane?

And if you are that starved that you are using the 2 hit pieces in t10 + his chest, you are doing it really wrong.

[Arcanefodder]

So your saying you rather have 5.5 crit then 5 SP as arcane?

And if you are that starved that you are using the 2 hit pieces in t10 + his chest, you are doing it really wrong.

OH GOD HAHAHA

[TruffleMuffin]

Case for Student of the Mind 3/3 (10% spirit buff)

Molten Armour (35%) + Glyph (20%)

Means that 55% of your spirit now becomes Critical Strike Rating and spirit is increase by 10%.

12sp + 10spirit gem with +5sp bonus.

= 12sp + 11spirit (from talent)

= 12sp + 6.05 (will round down to 0) critical strike rating.

= 18 points (+5sp from bonus)

= 23 points.

As such they gemming is equivalent only when using 3/3 student of the mind.

[Arcanefodder]

Case for Student of the Mind 3/3 (10% spirit buff)

Molten Armour (35%) + Glyph (20%)

Means that 55% of your spirit now becomes Critical Strike Rating and spirit is increase by 10%.

12sp + 10spirit gem with +5sp bonus.

= 12sp + 11spirit (from talent)

= 12sp + 6.05 (will round down to 0) critical strike rating.

= 18 points (+5sp from bonus)

= 23 points.

As such they gemming is equivalent only when using 3/3 student of the mind.

eek, yea just realised my bad math lol. too lazy to go back and edit though.

Thats a pre-raid buffed enviornment though. Kings offers the same bonus as 3/3SOTM and by default you will take 1/3 so that is 14% assuming 1/3 SOTM, thus offering slightly more than 23SP.

Potent offering 24 points in the absolute pinnacle of gear.

[Swizzle]

at this point, i'm willing to go out on a limb and say having a 277 chest is not like having a filler belt of omission; you have to make the choice to put that piece of gear in over tier simply because tier has been out for.....how long now? 6 months? 277 non-tier chest only 2-3?

anyway, my point was that potent offer more crit than purified, and if someone is sooooo interested in crit to stack it high enough that their haste falls down to 600, then gemming purifieds is a loss in crit compared to a potent.

[takolin]

Equip 2 pieces of T9 and then you get 70% crit rating from spirit, making spirit more valuable. You can unequip them after you buffed.


So at a certain point a fire mages will prefer potents over runeds.

So in a blue+5SP socket it's:

10 crit rating vs 10 spirit + 5SP
Or
10 crit rating vs 7 crit rating and 5 SP.

Without kings or SotM, making purifieds the better option

[glader]

I looked at both parses real quick and it looked like they both had demo locks, so wtf are you talking about?

[Swizzle]

Equip 2 pieces of T9 and then you get 70% crit rating from spirit, making spirit more valuable. You can unequip them after you buffed.


So at a certain point a fire mages will prefer potents over runeds.

So in a blue+5SP socket it's:

10 crit rating vs 10 spirit + 5SP
Or
10 crit rating vs 7 crit rating and 5 SP.

Without kings or SotM, making purifieds the better option

it's 3 crit vs 5 sp with 2 piece t9, or 4.5 crit vs. 5 sp without it, or 3.95 crit vs 5 sp with kings.

if you're at the point where potents are better than runed, then 1 crit is greater value than 1.2 SP. so let's see...
3.9 crit vs. 5 sp with 2 piece t9, 5.85 crit vs 5 sp without it, 5.135 crit vs 5 sp with kings.

in 66% of the cases, potents win out. for the sake of rational argument, which would discount a bug, potents beat out purified if you are at that point, and runeds beat them out prior to that...in sockets of 5 spellpower.

[rathofvol]

I looked at both parses real quick and it looked like they both had demo locks, so wtf are you talking about?

Maybe you shouldn't look at them real quick then...

These were the two parses

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/1zll4...?s=3606&e=3809
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/p...?s=3268&e=3473

Clearly the first doesn't have a demo lock.

[takolin]

it's 3 crit vs 5 sp with 2 piece t9, or 4.5 crit vs. 5 sp without it, or 3.95 crit vs 5 sp with kings.

if you're at the point where potents are better than runed, then 1 crit is greater value than 1.2 SP. so let's see...
3.9 crit vs. 5 sp with 2 piece t9, 5.85 crit vs 5 sp without it, 5.135 crit vs 5 sp with kings.

in 66% of the cases, potents win out. for the sake of rational argument, which would discount a bug, potents beat out purified if you are at that point, and runeds beat them out prior to that...in sockets of 5 spellpower.

I can understand the reasoning, but I can't say I'm overly convinced.

[Brandoh]

haha
thanks for the lolz ya nerdz

[Rystastic]

And you also got 3 Power Infusions tonight on Saurfang, so QQ more about buff stacking to increase the numbers... you don't sound like a hypocrite or anything :

InB4 "You registered an account just to say this.."

Those fights lasted an average of 3 minutes. When my priest is disc, I feed a mage 2 power infusions throughout the fight. This is just one priest. The guilds pushing top numbers down their mages neck have several disc priests CHAINING power infusion on that mage. As in, say, Arcane Mage pops Icy Veins, as icy veins runs out, priest one gives him power infusion, when this power infusion runs out, priest two gives him power infusion, etc etc.

This would result in anywhere from 5-9 power infusions over a fight.. Not 2-3.

[rathofvol]

This would result in anywhere from 5-9 power infusions over a fight.. Not 2-3.

Rofl, 9 PIs for a 3 minute fight? That would mean there's a minimum of 5 disc priests in the raid... ya, that sounds logical...

PI is a 2 minute CD, so the most you could get per disc priest is 2 times in a 3 minute fight and since he got 3 that means more than 1 disc priest was giving him PIs, which I would call buff stacking and e-peen flexing.