When is Arm Pen good for ret?

[Cardolan]

Check the OPs gear.

He has a leather belt (presumably for the ARP), and his boots have a rare gem in the blue socket (presumably, cause rare gems are blue)

He has a leather belt because it's better than the plate alternatives if you don't need the hit rating from the Malevolent Girdle.

As for the gem, I'd guess he was planning to switch the Nightmare Tear in his chest to a Dragon's Eye (because he's not going to replace it for something better any time soon) and didn't want to waste an epic gem in his boots when he'll be putting a Nightmare Tear in that socket.

[Skulldancer]

He has a leather belt because it's better than the plate alternatives if you don't need the hit rating from the Malevolent Girdle.

As for the gem, I'd guess he was planning to switch the Nightmare Tear in his chest to a Dragon's Eye (because he's not going to replace it for something better any time soon) and didn't want to waste an epic gem in his boots when he'll be putting a Nightmare Tear in that socket.

refresh you guys Armory/wow heroes.

I actually have Saronite Stompers from LDW25. But i needed more expertise

[Deleted]

ArP is like that hot basketball cheerleader who all other melee hang out with, but enh and ret don't because they like baseball more.

[Brael]

Erm, only 1 point in heart of the crusader too guys omfg!! And level 1 enchanting! Lol. FLAME NAO!

On a serious note, ArP is unavoidable in ICC gear, it's not the best stat for us but don't go gemming it!

[Nillo]

Erm, only 1 point in heart of the crusader too guys omfg!!

There's nothing wrong with that as long as you have enough rets/prot paladins/elemental shamans to provide the debuff.

[Senbo]

arp is to ret pallies what spellpower is to warrior tanks >.>

[Nillo]

arp is to ret pallies what spellpower is to warrior tanks >.>

If you want to compare it to a prot warrior I'd say it's more like block value.

[Hendrixstorm]

There's nothing wrong with that as long as you have enough rets/prot paladins/elemental shamans to provide the debuff.

If your elemental shaman has ToW down for more then 11 seconds your guild is doing it wrong

[Nillo]

If your elemental shaman has ToW down for more then 11 seconds your guild is doing it wrong

Just giving examples and yes, the warlocks in my raid are all selfish bastards :P

[Kisko]

Since some people have no clue, comparing ArPen to spellpower for warrs, etc ...

DPS scaling from stats by SimCraft 3.32.4. Toon at sig.



Str is the king.

Haste/Crit/Agi are #2 and all very close.

ArPen and AttackPower are #3.

So, yes, we scale with ArPen, it's far from useless, just not optimal.

[Deleted]

When Rogue's start gemming spell power lol

woho! increased poison damage

[Crazhr]

Since some people have no clue, comparing ArPen to spellpower for warrs, etc ...

So, yes, we scale with ArPen, it's far from useless, just not optimal.

What he said. When you get 2 part t10 the damage distribution between physical and magic change abit which makes arp an "decent" stat. It gives some dps and by that should not always be avoided but if you have the option of avoiding it for more str, crit and haste do it.

[Deleted]

so conclusion on topic:
armor penetration as a paladin is only better than excessive hitrating and expertise, and only comparable to attackpower at best.

and shadow's edge is a weapon with 3.7speed and no hit/exp on it AND is needed to get shadowmourne so this might be the reason some paladins are wearing it.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

Hit:Required till cap. Ensures spells hit and removes Miss chance.(not dodge parry w/e)
Expertise:Required till Cap. Helps lower dodge/parry chance.

Strength: Increases AP which Increases SP and all around great damage booster.
AP:Side effect of Strength

Crit:Increases the rate of critical hits of spells and white damage.
Agility:Increases Physical Crit rate.

Haste:Increases rate of swing and reduces GCD, meaning more swings-more procs-less downtime.

ArP: ......................................

Slightly increases your white damage. Ok, so it's not a terrible stat. But as a paladin at high gear levels you have no incentive to wear only plate. So why not downgrade to a BiS Mail or Leather which will give you equivalent AP mas Crit/Agil and hey even a less useless stat:Int(until Cat). So by all means if the only upgrade available is a piece with loads of strength and ArP then take it. But don't stack it or gem for it, or roll on DBW.

Especially DBW. If it's static(and most important)value is the Arp, which is least valuable to this class then it essentially means you are getting half a trinket.

Half a trinket.

Half.

[Ronark]

Hit:Required till cap. Ensures spells hit and removes Miss chance.(not dodge parry w/e)
Expertise:Required till Cap. Helps lower dodge/parry chance.

Strength: Increases AP which Increases SP and all around great damage booster.
AP:Side effect of Strength

Crit:Increases the rate of critical hits of spells and white damage.
Agility:Increases Physical Crit rate.

Haste:Increases rate of swing and reduces GCD, meaning more swings-more procs-less downtime.

ArP: ......................................

Slightly increases your white damage. Ok, so it's not a terrible stat. But as a paladin at high gear levels you have no incentive to wear only plate. So why not downgrade to a BiS Mail or Leather which will give you equivalent AP mas Crit/Agil and hey even a less useless stat:Int(until Cat). So by all means if the only upgrade available is a piece with loads of strength and ArP then take it. But don't stack it or gem for it, or roll on DBW.

Especially DBW. If it's static(and most important)value is the Arp, which is least valuable to this class then it essentially means you are getting half a trinket.

Half a trinket.

Half.

ArP increases the damage of White hits, CS, and DS.

And no Paladin gets hit until the spell cap of 17%. We stop at 8% hit on the Melee table since only Exorcism and Consecration are the only 2 damage spells (3 if you count LolWrath).

AP also increases Weapon damage, making some abilities (Like SoCorr) triple-dip from it.

[Deleted]

The only situation where ArP is beneficial is when you are ridiculously overcapped with hit or expertise so that replacing them with any other stat would be a dps increase. Too much exp is something you aren't going to see with ICC gear, unless you are lucky enough to win Glorenzelg; instead many items have insane amounts of hit.

In short, ArP from gear is acceptable if it's an upgrade otherwise (Shadow's Edge, anyone?). But you shoul NEVER, EVER gem, enchant or intentionally gear for ArP - or haste for that matter.

[Deleted]

i'm going to sim the BiS all items list with ArP gems and see what the DPS loss is.

edit: DPS with STR gems and SM: 13,568
DPs with all STR gems replaced with ArP: 12,932

so you lose about 636 DPS just regemming to ArP.

[Nillo]

AP also increases Weapon damage, making some abilities (Like SoCorr) triple-dip from it.

It's absolutely NOT double or triple dipping -.- stop spreading that nonsense EJ brought up or else I will start posting, that
we are double dipping from int (because it increases our max mana and spell crit chance)
we are Quadro dipping from haste (more white hits; more seal hits ; more DS procs ; more TaJ procs)

[Aildaris]

Like people before me said, ArP is not really useless, it's just the worst DPS stat for us besides excessive amounts of hit/exp.

As a retadin you should never go out of your way to get ArP, but being plate, avoiding ArP is hard. There is nothing wrong getting ArP on gear its just you should never gear for it purposely nor gem for it.

[Swampmoose]

Like people before me said, ArP is not really useless, it's just the worst DPS stat for us besides excessive amounts of hit/exp.

As a retadin you should never go out of your way to get ArP, but being plate, avoiding ArP is hard. There is nothing wrong getting ArP on gear its just you should never gear for it purposely nor gem for it.

It's not just plate, its any armor type. Ever since ArP was buffed, it has been hard to find anything without it. It is on our BiS belt, boots, necklace (all leather or agi based), and there are no other items I can even think of with haste in place of ArP in those slots.