getting rid of the minimum time limit for vote kick

[Geekzilla]

I have had several instances where tanks DC upon entering a particular instance, such as H Occ or H HoR.
This prevents progress as well as us getting a new tank.
It's either wait out the 15 minutes until they come back (which normally they don't) to kick, then rejoin queue, or leave queue and wait out the 30 minutes doing something else.

Not true, you can vote kick someone after about a minute of being DCed regardless of the 15 minute timer.

On the rest of the subjects, I'm more of a middle ground. I won't vote-kick someone for bad DPS, unless it keeps us from downing the bosses. I'll give constructive criticism, and if they go off on the "You don't know how to play my class" or "I play for the fun of it, I don't need to be a theorycrafter" tangents, I'll ignore them. Hunters that insist on aspect of the dazed during combat might be an exception (never ran into one that didn't turn it off as soon as someone pointed out they had it on), because they're adversely affecting the group far more than their simple absence would.

AFKers are a different story. Then again, I've only run into a handful of those in hundreds of DF groups. Unless they're tabbing in and doing something to prevent them from getting the AFK flag, treating the AFK flag similar to DCing would be fine (but with no need for a 1 minute delay). Waiting the 5 minutes till they AFK would still be a pain, but better, at least.

I just don't trust my fellow players to use votekick reasonably, even with the 15 minute delay, and I'd trust them even less with a shorter timer. I've been votekicked once. It was on a healer, and they were upset with me for not healing, till I pointed out that it was hard to heal when you're dead, at so they changed to being mad at me for standing in the fire, at which point I pointed out that I died in phase 2, before there was any fire to avoid, I just got ganged up on by adds that the tank didn't pick up and died before I could pull them over to the tank. Kicked me anyway, and I was glad to be out of that group.

I can count the number of votekicks that I've agreed with that didn't have to do with the person DCing on the fingers of one hand (OK, including the thumb). On the other hand, I'll usually see at least one attempted votekick for wrong, bad, or just stupid reasons each day.

[Loonatek]

They should implement a system like in bgs when you go /afk you should be kicked, or like the debuff you get for not doing anything that tells you to attack someone or you will be kicked out the bg.So many times ppl join and then afk at the start and don't dc so we can kick them. And the other thing that bothers me is the ability to kick a person right before the last boss. Got kicked like 4-5 times just couse I ended up in a party with 4 ppl from the same realm/guild who likes to make jokes.

[grimkiller]

I just had this happen Sunday with H Occ. The tank DC'd and when I tried to kick, it gave me the error message "You cannot vote-kick this player for another 14 minutes" or whatever. Maybe it does change after a minute or so. That group fell apart within 30 seconds, so I didn't have a chance to test it.

[Fenixdown]

Normally I agree with you Fenix but you're assuming way too much. I have personally run in to people who are just awful (like the 800 DPS hunter who had aspect of the dazed on all the time including during pulls - idc abt DPS but that aspect sure as hell slows us down) or are looking for a completely free ride (afk at entrance or go on follow).

In a situation like that it could be that the group has to be unanimous to kick someone before the timer expires and a reason for the kick gets logged somewhere so repeated offenders could get slower queues or whatever.

I wasn't assuming, I was basing my response upon what people (most notably on these very forums) complain about wanting to kick people for in regards to heroics. First by a vast margin is because "they're undergeared".

Bad players are a different matter. But you have to think, how often do you really run into someone that is THAT bad? Once every two weeks or so? I think I average about once every 3 weeks minimum, and that's running my daily twice each day (it would be four times, but I set down my lock and dk until I can move them). And even so, someone doing 800 DPS or something, just put them on ignore. You don't necessarily NEED to remove them.

The dazed thing, that's another matter. Like death knights that feel the need to death grip every time it's off cooldown. What I do instead is I let those people die, refuse to ress them, and they either leave on their own or sit there dead until the 15 minutes are up. Then you kick them.

There's always alternate solutions to every problem.

[Sinizine]

There does need to be some option to remove idiots early. I'm not talking bad players, just the people who are in general, probably trolls. If you're bad, ok, you can at least learn. It's these morons that willingly do things to slow down the party that we need this sort of option for.

Few recent examples of really frustating players recently:

-Tank that stayed in Ironforge. After 5 mins, I asked him to just get to the instance already or leave so we could be in the queue. His response, well, let's just say he was obviously a troll and is probably doing it all the time. I just left and went and did something on an alt.

- Ret Paladin using sword and shield. I thought he was just bad at first, but when I asked why he was using it, he simply linked the skill up achievement, as if this group of 4 people that didn't now him really wanted to help this idiot with it.

- Tank with a DPS alt dualboxing on autofollow. I could live if he was some supertank and the DPS were awesome. But this was on a brand new 80, and the type of group you tend to get with brand new 80s is not fun to slog through down a DPS.

I mean, I get it, heroics are easy, but in general, I don't wanna spend extra time in them because you just alt tabbed in to throw an AOE every other pull. If you wanna be lazy and fuck around, do it with your friends and guild.

[Yerbury]

Bad players are a different matter. But you have to think, how often do you really run into someone that is THAT bad? Once every two weeks or so? I think I average about once every 3 weeks minimum, and that's running my daily twice each day (it would be four times, but I set down my lock and dk until I can move them). And even so, someone doing 800 DPS or something, just put them on ignore. You don't necessarily NEED to remove them.

I hear you.

'Cutting off the nose to spite the face'. Sometimes, players become so bent out of shape about a fellow group member's performance (or lack thereof), they can't see the bigger picture.

If a tank or healer is doing enough to get us through the instance, I shut the hell up and leave him to it. If my heroic is going to take 4 minutes longer than usual as a result, I won't be welling up with tears. The alternative is kicking that tank or healer and then waiting 5-10 minutes for a new one (who may be no better).

Players who scream and wail about their precious time being wasted make me laugh. You are playing WoW, one of the biggest time sinks that life has to offer. And you are bitching about an extra few minutes? Give me a break.

[suleria]

I think it is a good idea to remove the time limit. had someone that zoned out to "finish his dailies" while we killed the first to bosses of DTK, and we were unable to kick him because of the 15 minute time limit. We basically in the end arranged to slow down on the trash for the last boss just to get his 15 minutes up to kick him.

In a random group it is unlikely a vote-kick will pass unless there is a significant problem with the member being voted upon. If someone is not up to the task they should not get to leech off everyone else.

[MestHoop]

I've wanted this for SOOO long!
This isn't about people being undergeared... it's about being total idiots..
Examples: Disc priest in t9 without a SINGLE gem or enchant, complaining that he goes oom in FoS... Also doesn't use shadow fiend.
This guy isn't bad geared, he's just flat out too lazy to get some gems and enchants on his already pretty good gear... And also doesn't know how his class works >_> (Also didn't take friendly suggestions like "Your shadow fiend gives you some extra mana if you're running oom" and responds with shit like "how about you stick to tanking and I'll stick to healing?").

DW frost DK with tanking weapons in frost pressence (the rest all DPS gear, queue'd as DPS). Again, no enchants or gems.

Arms warrior in blues (normally np), with a polearm but ZERO polearm skill... Did a total of 10k damage in an entire gundrak instance. Didn't have the decency to swap to a different weapon after being asked nice several times.

Frost mage going "fast run plx" at the start, doesn't buff, doesn't make a table and is AFK for the larger part of the dungeon.
This guy will likely ninja all the loot from the last boss (or whatever he can need anyway) and leave before you can say anything.

And the list goes on and on... Most of the time I can see it coming from the start. I will always give someone a chance and try to help them, but most of the time they're too cocky or idiotic to even take the slightest comment...

[Duilliath]

There is a limit of 1 kick per run also to help prevent that.

Unfortunately, yes. Had two afkers in one run. Managed to get rid of the first one eventually, couldn't ditch the second. Not fun.

Additionally, for heroics, the time before you can kick is absurd. Most times I'll be done before the timer is even finished. I can understand a timer. Just not one that's set to this length. Five minutes should be more than sufficient.

[Zka]

The question then becomes why you "needed" it.

If it was because "some noob in blues was slowin down mah badges", then go f&*^ yourself and deal with it.

If it was because of a disconnect or something, that's different.

Either way, I think it didn't happen to prevent the Gearscore tards from just booting anyone below 6K from their oh-so-incredibly gear dependant 5-man heroics.

Gearscore tards must be an absolute minority. Never anyone said a word about my gear on any of my characters. Including my mage alt who entered hcs with the absolute minimum, green-blue quest rewards and T4-T5 mix. I had 11K hp unbuffed, that's so got me killed everywhere (yeah I did 2.5K+ overall, so my dps wasn't half of my GS)
Noone ever said anything when I tanked instances with less than 25K unbuffed (dps gear+shield).
Noone said anything when my pala alt with 14K mana and 1200 spellpower got hc FoS as her second heroic. (yeah I healed it fine)

On the other hand I and my groups need the instant votekick pretty often.
- someone has been ninja afk for 5+ mins
- retarded DK comes in with lvl1 weaponskill and does 30-80 dps per pull. Really. When we ask him to equip something he has skill for, he does 500. Then ninjas a BOE epic. We had to endure him for 16 waves in VH before the timer ran out.

Votekick timer has to go. It has no function whatsoever.
Loot rolls should not last for minutes (making votekicking an afk idiot harder).