Elemental raiding and mana

[Atilius]

I'm raiding as elemental and my rotation is lava burst and lightning bolt and chain lightning whenever its off cooldown.

But chaining lightning is burning my mana slowly on long fights so after 5min I usually end up on low mana even I cast LvB->LB->CL for clearcasting(40% less mana buff).


So I think I've got a solution: I go gemming pure haste gems so I get 1sec cast on lightning bolt so I can drop chain lightning from rotation so I can spam the cheap LB instead.

What do you think?



My current cast time on LB is 1.3sec and 1.04sec on chain lightning. Every gems on my gear is SP+haste orange gem.

My armory is here: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...oun&cn=Atilius

[Abolishment]

I think you need to ditch that Common Brown Shirt.

On the other hand, taking Chain Lightning out of your rotation on single-target fights will be a minimal DPS loss and a substantial mana gain. Problem is, unless you're doing hard modes, those single-target fights would be over before your mana became an issue.

If you have fantastic healers, ask for an Innervate about 3 minutes in?

[Atilius]

Thanks for fast response.

Yes my guild are doing hardmodes and attempting on LK25 so the fights started to ends longer now. Its kind annoying that I have to spam thunderstorm same second its off from cooldown.

I think healers need innervate to themselves.

[Pullup]

Dude.
Seriously mana is never a problem.
Do you have thunderstorm on cd?
Have it on cooldown all the time.
If your not doing saurfang go ahead and glyph it.
Keep mana shield up thats it.
Don't gem haste mate just don't.

[Gunmist]

Your lack of flameshock is disturbing.

[Atilius]

Dude.
Seriously mana is never a problem.
Do you have thunderstorm on cd?
Have it on cooldown all the time.
If your not doing saurfang go ahead and glyph it.
Keep mana shield up thats it.
Don't gem haste mate just don't.

Read the thread again, and if you had checked the armory link you'd see I've got thunderstorm glyphed.

[Robyn]

How do people as bad as the OP get such great gear?
/facepalm

Red gems: Spellpower
Orange: Sp/haste
Blue: Glowing dreadstone

Rotation:
FS>LVB>LB
Do NOT use CL unless there are nearby mobs.

Glyph:
TOW
LVB -or- FT
LB

[Robyn]

I think you need to ditch that Common Brown Shirt.

On the other hand, taking Chain Lightning out of your rotation on single-target fights will be a minimal DPS loss and a substantial mana gain. Problem is, unless you're doing hard modes, those single-target fights would be over before your mana became an issue.

If you have fantastic healers, ask for an Innervate about 3 minutes in?

Wrong. Wrong. WRONG.
CL is a huge dps loss on a single target fight

[Atilius]

Wrong. Wrong. WRONG.
CL is a huge dps loss on a single target fight

Clueless poster is clueless.

Chain lightning does less dmg than LB but has faster cast time so its higher damage per cast time. Please leave my thread, I'm not interested of your disinformation.

[Rammus]

taking Chain Lightning out of your rotation on single-target fights will be a minimal DPS loss and a substantial mana gain.

Thats actually not true.

Taken from http://www.wowwiki.com/Spell_power_coefficient

lb: 71.43% + 20% from shamanism
cl: 57.14/ 40%/ 28% on each "jump", respectively + 20% from shamanism

There is a SP point that lb does more single target dmg than cl. I am quite sure that with icc gear
you've reached that point :P

Clueless poster is clueless.

Chain lightning does less dmg than LB but has faster cast time so its higher damage per cast time. Please leave my thread, I'm not interested of your disinformation.

Hmm, you better hide :-X It's been a dps loss since << 3k SP so by now that raid buffed + procs
you'll be on 4k, yeah that'll be huge loss

[patrin]

our 1st LK kill was like 16 minute long and our ele shaman had like 70% mana at the end.

his gear is extremely similar to yours. I think your problem is making sure you have judgement of wisdom on the target and having at least TWO replenishment effects in your raid.

also i dont play an ele but im fairly certain chainlightning is a dps loss due to its lower spellpower coeffecient. dont take my word for it look it up on elitist jerks.

my rotation is lava burst and lightning bolt and chain lightning whenever its off cooldown.

im also assuming you just didnt bother to include flameshock in your rotation because it was obvious.. but if not then...

[Clockwork Pinkie]

Well fix your rotation.

Lightning bolt x(??) till lava burst is off of CD, Lava burst and CL. Use thunderstorm at around 90% of your mana, and use it every time it's up. Only use CL after a lava burst for the high burst damage, using it every time it's up is what's wasting your mana. And with that trinket use you have. There is no way in hell you are possibly going out of mana.
Change some gems around, more SP less SP haste with Elemental mastery you have to be below 1 second cast of lightning bolt.

[whowherewhat?]

there was a time that I had that healer trinket myself (with the mana on-use)...I'm finding it hard to believe that you're running out of mana using CL on cooldown when you have
A. Thunderstorm returning 10% of your mana every 45 seconds
B. that trinket returning 1625 mana every 2 mins
C. much more Mp5 than many elemental shamans (due to healing weapon, bracers, and trinket)
D. no doubt replenishment and judgment of wisdom in a guild clearing up to LK

given that you have C and D automatically, that means that you're either not doing A or B, or you've broken the game. If its the latter, congrats!

P.S. are you doing any offhealing for any reason? that can be a huge mana sink

[Arcsecant]

So I think I've got a solution: I go gemming pure haste gems so I get 1sec cast on lightning bolt so I can drop chain lightning from rotation so I can spam the cheap LB instead.

Go ahead and gem pure haste. Respec resto while you're at it. SP gems, 2 SP stam gems, and SP haste gems when the bonus is worth it.

With that kind of gear AND the healer trinket you should never be going oom other than maybe the LK fight. No other fight has enough AoE to even bring you close to going oom. You have enough haste and SP to drop CL out of single target rotation. Sure it is theoretically more DPS but unless you have amazing timing and no latency issues LB is the way to go.

I would love to have some of that gear (not to mention I'd gem it correctly). Please regem before I cry. (And make some earthsoul boots)

[Chitzu]

Is this a serious thread? If you're seriously even thinking about gemming pure haste to solve mana problem or for whatever reason, sorry but you should do as above said... go respecc Resto, you're obviously not experience as Elem and doesn't really know much about it.

Simply put:

Red Sockets = 23 SP
Yellow Sockets with a good Socket bonus = SP/Haste (or hit, depending on what you got)

2x 12SP/15 stam gems, should be placed where you get the most out of the socket bonus (Usually Chest/Legs.)

CL isn't dropping in value cause of how much SP you got, it drops in value cause of your haste, if your CL casts goes below 1 sec then you should take it out of the rotation, why? Cause then it's faster then the GCD = Small downtime + MS is going to be counted into the next cast = Major DPS loss, along with LB's being more DPS by that point.

Your gearing is awful, so is your choice of gemming, the hell do you have resto trinkets for? Silver of Pure ice of all as well, not even good for resto. ToC 5 trinket with static Haste and SP on procc is even better then that.

Neither should you use 5 pieces of T10.

gotta give you credits for being the proper specc tho, but your Glyph choice is awful.

Should be:

Glyph of Lightninbolt
Glyph of Lava
Glyph of ToW (Or FT, depending on your gear level.)


Also, not even on LK you go that low on mana... there's not really much AOE except from valks if you do it proper, and then you use Thunderstorm anyways along with a Fire nova so...

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=148181

There's from when im doing it, and as you can see... no mana issues whatsoever.

[Abolishment]

Thats actually not true.

Taken from http://www.wowwiki.com/Spell_power_coefficient

lb: 71.43% + 20% from shamanism
cl: 57.14/ 40%/ 28% on each "jump", respectively + 20% from shamanism

There is a SP point that lb does more single target dmg than cl. I am quite sure that with icc gear
you've reached that point :P
Hmm, you better hide :-X It's been a dps loss since << 3k SP so by now that raid buffed + procs
you'll be on 4k, yeah that'll be huge loss

The "slight DPS loss" I mentioned has to do with cast time. Until you can, without cooldowns, reduce the casting time of Chain Lightning below 1 second, it will usually be considered a better button to push. Especially in one of those min/max situations where you have exactly 1 second left before Lava Burst is off cooldown. Now, do you do a 1~ second Chain Lightning and maximize your DPS, or do you do a 1.5~ second Lightning Bolt, and wait an extra .5~ seconds to put that Lava Burst back on cooldown?

That's the slight loss I was speaking about. I'm very well aware that Lightning Bolt has the better coefficient (especially glyphed).

Also, one thing I forgot to mention earlier - make sure you have a Judgement of Wisdom. I know it seems silly, but there are guilds (mostly 10-man ones) that don't use more than one Paladin, and in fights where people run the risk of dying, some Paladins opt for the extra buffer of Judgement of Light over the extra mana from Judgement of Wisdom. Just something to note.

[Darcam]

...Keep water shield up! Make sure its up - always! Use your Thunderstorm. Cut back on CL casts on single target fights.

Make sure you got some sort of replenishment. Still - if you dont have it, I would think most other mana-useing classes would be QQ'ing before the elemental shaman.

[Rammus]

The "slight DPS loss" I mentioned has to do with cast time. Until you can, without cooldowns, reduce the casting time of Chain Lightning below 1 second, it will usually be considered a better button to push. Especially in one of those min/max situations where you have exactly 1 second left before Lava Burst is off cooldown. Now, do you do a 1~ second Chain Lightning and maximize your DPS, or do you do a 1.5~ second Lightning Bolt, and wait an extra .5~ seconds to put that Lava Burst back on cooldown?

That's the slight loss I was speaking about. I'm very well aware that Lightning Bolt has the better coefficient (especially glyphed).

Also, one thing I forgot to mention earlier - make sure you have a Judgement of Wisdom. I know it seems silly, but there are guilds (mostly 10-man ones) that don't use more than one Paladin, and in fights where people run the risk of dying, some Paladins opt for the extra buffer of Judgement of Light over the extra mana from Judgement of Wisdom. Just something to note.

You are right, just found a nice post though would fit

Lightning Bolt does slightly more damage than Chain Lightning, due to better scaling, the Glyph of LB which increases the damage done by LB by 4%, and the fact that LB has a better chance to proc Lightning overload on single targets. The reason why people use CL in their rotations, especially at low haste levels, is that CL has a much shorter cast time than LB meaning that CL has a higher damage per second cast (DPSC).

However, at very high spellpower/haste levels a few things happen. First, because of the glyph, the way the spell works LB pulls a bit further ahead of CL in damage. Second, the cast time of LB is reduced enough that DPSC of LB starts to outdo CL, especially when you consider lightning overload procs. Once LB equals or exceeds CL in DPSC, you may as well drop CL from your rotation, because LB is far less expensive to cast (mana). If you use less mana, you need to Tstorm less often, which frees up more GCDs to do more damage.

At extremely high levels of haste, which are not easily attainable with gear, such as during Bloodlust/Heroism, Elemental Mastery, Engineering glove enchant or speed pots, the cast time for CL may drop below 1 second, which means your GCD will be longer than the cast. At the same time, LB should be very near to 1 second which makes it very desirable to cast, since it does more damage anyway.

Going OOM as an ele shamy with ICC gear, even w/o using thunderstorm, indicates cl usage almost on cd. Avoid it, once
near 1k haste(+totem proc, +buffs) the only case you'd want to cast CL is to make your rot perfect(or movement),
but with the delay(http://wowhats.wordpress.com/2010/03...g-wow-and-you/) it aint worth it.