Masteries finished?

[Albert the fish]

http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/77515/m...oly-masteries/
http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/77514/m...ost-masteries/
http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/77513/m...ood-masteries/

opinions?

[Alandris]

i like the blood one some kind of block like the druid one , i find the +crit chance for unholy kinda awkward but why not and i'm well skeptical about the +runic power of the frost tree.

[Vaka]

I think the RP gain from Frost is crap. Bear with me here; I'm thinking of this from a PVE perspective.

Currently, as DW Frost, I quite often have more RP than I know what to do with. I have a powerauras setting that shows me when I'm at or above 90% runic power, and my natural instinct is to dump it with frost strikes. There I am spamming FS and "shit, my diseases just fell off!". Wasn't in time with the pestilence, and now my rotation is fukt. My dps suffers as a result.

What do I need with even more RP?

For pvp? yeah, it's great. Oh wait, who pvp's as frost? durr...

[Zao]

Sigh...it will all change with Cata.
Blizzard will offer more free gcds and more abilites that cost RP.
Just wait and see and don't start bitching about stuff without knowing anything.

[Vaka]

Sigh...it will all change with Cata.
Blizzard will offer more free gcds and more abilites that cost RP.
Just wait and see and don't start bitching about stuff without knowing anything.

Sorry if I just fail to see where they can magically pull extra gcd's out of their collective ass, unless the change to runes refreshing has some effect. Possibly the new Outbreak ability, but that will only affect the first rotation. Further rotations (as DW Frost) should still be the standard Oblits/Pest/BS, dumping RP where you can and hoping that if you get a rime/KM proc, there's an opening to pop it without torqing your rotation.

The one thing that would make me smile as a Frost DK would be Unbreakable Armor losing the rune cost and costing Runic Power instead. Also, Howling Blast would get a great deal more use, or rather the Rime proc, if they made an addition to the proc that removed the next cast of HB from the GCD, as well as the rune cost discount.

[Gerian]

Sorry if I just fail to see where they can magically pull extra gcd's out of their collective ass, unless the change to runes refreshing has some effect. Possibly the new Outbreak ability, but that will only affect the first rotation. Further rotations (as DW Frost) should still be the standard Oblits/Pest/BS, dumping RP where you can and hoping that if you get a rime/KM proc, there's an opening to pop it without torqing your rotation.

If you bothered reading about the rune change you'd realize that we wont be frantically mashing rune abilities while GCD locked with our RP dumps. Strikes will be less frequent but more potent allowing more free globals for other abilities.

[Shiira]

They could allow us to control our runic power expenditure better by turning rune strike into what heroic strike was originally meant to be.

[Vaka]

If you bothered reading about the rune change you'd realize that we wont be frantically mashing rune abilities while GCD locked with our RP dumps. Strikes will be less frequent but more potent allowing more free globals for other abilities.

Oh I bothered reading, and then what I read bothered me. It reads like algebra and I fucking hate math. It does read a little clearer now after having read some of the discussion, but it seems to me like they're fixing something that isn't broken, just for the sake of working on it. It's as if they thought "hmm, they've spent the better part of 18 months learning rotations and specs. Let's fuck with them a bit and turn their world on it's ear, giving them an entirely new class to play with".

[Gravion]

Oh I bothered reading, and then what I read bothered me. It reads like algebra and I fucking hate math. It does read a little clearer now after having read some of the discussion, but it seems to me like they're fixing something that isn't broken, just for the sake of working on it. It's as if they thought "hmm, they've spent the better part of 18 months learning rotations and specs. Let's fuck with them a bit and turn their world on it's ear, giving them an entirely new class to play with".

You mean... things change in an expansion pack?! WHAT?!
Try and read it again, it's really not that hard to understand.
Right now, we have 6 energy bars that all fill at the same time. Blood energy 1, blood energy 2, frost energy 1, frost energy 2, unholy energy 1, unholy energy 2. Heart strike uses one whole blood energy bar. Obliterate uses one whole frost energy bar and one whole unholy energy bar.
Pretty much, we have 3 energy bars in Cataclysm, that all still fill up at the same time. Blood energy, frost energy, and unholy energy. Heart strike, for example, uses 50 blood energy. Obliterate uses 50 frost energy and 50 unholy energy. Get it?

tl;dr (because I know you won't want to read the whole version because it's algebra :) Rune regen rates are halved.

[russykh]

Oh I bothered reading, and then what I read bothered me. It reads like algebra and I fucking hate math. It does read a little clearer now after having read some of the discussion, but it seems to me like they're fixing something that isn't broken, just for the sake of working on it. It's as if they thought "hmm, they've spent the better part of 18 months learning rotations and specs. Let's fuck with them a bit and turn their world on it's ear, giving them an entirely new class to play with".

Maybe you did, but it seems like you read what was changing and then assumed that nothing else would. Of course increasing your runic power regen would be pointless now. In the same way you are assuming both your rotation, and talents/procs are going to remain the same. They arent, and talking like the sky is falling by putting them into the current system isnt really constructive.

Maybe you think that the current system isnt broken, but the 3dps/3tank trees are a nightmare to balance around. They've done a fair job all things considered, but there are still people who complain that "their playstyle" is no longer viable or behind (2H frost tanks/dps for example). Seperating tanking into its own tree is going to make it much, much easier for them, and in the long run make a better game (hopefully). It just means that we have a pretty big change to go through for them to do it.

[Intiriel]

You mean... things change in an expansion pack?! WHAT?!
Try and read it again, it's really not that hard to understand.
Right now, we have 6 energy bars that all fill at the same time. Blood energy 1, blood energy 2, frost energy 1, frost energy 2, unholy energy 1, unholy energy 2. Heart strike uses one whole blood energy bar. Obliterate uses one whole frost energy bar and one whole unholy energy bar.
Pretty much, we have 3 energy bars in Cataclysm, that all still fill up at the same time. Blood energy, frost energy, and unholy energy. Heart strike, for example, uses 50 blood energy. Obliterate uses 50 frost energy and 50 unholy energy. Get it?

tl;dr (because I know you won't want to read the whole version because it's algebra :) Rune regen rates are halved.

Also remember haste will increase your regen, but it'll probably take a LOT of haste to get back to WotLK regen.
I'm not certain, not even 50% sure, but I think there was something about haste lowering melee GCD too, or am I wrong?

[Gravion]

Also remember haste will increase your regen, but it'll probably take a LOT of haste to get back to WotLK regen.
I'm not certain, not even 50% sure, but I think there was something about haste lowering melee GCD too, or am I wrong?

Well, your regen will never be exactly the same as it is now because there are 3 bars in Cata instead of 6. And I don't believe haste will lower melee GCDs.

[Darkagial]

The one thing that would make me smile as a Frost DK would be Unbreakable Armor losing the rune cost and costing Runic Power instead. Also, Howling Blast would get a great deal more use, or rather the Rime proc, if they made an addition to the proc that removed the next cast of HB from the GCD, as well as the rune cost discount.

who says frost tree is keeping Unbreakable Armor? the talent trees are barely touched so far.. and i cant see anything changed yet with the DK trees... except the damage...

[Deleted]

I think the RP gain from Frost is crap. Bear with me here; I'm thinking of this from a PVE perspective.

Currently, as DW Frost, I quite often have more RP than I know what to do with. I have a powerauras setting that shows me when I'm at or above 90% runic power, and my natural instinct is to dump it with frost strikes. There I am spamming FS and "shit, my diseases just fell off!". Wasn't in time with the pestilence, and now my rotation is fukt. My dps suffers as a result.

What do I need with even more RP?

For pvp? yeah, it's great. Oh wait, who pvp's as frost? durr...

Most PvP Specs are Unholy untill SS then Frost.

Anyway - drop Chill of the Grave if you haven't already. Problem solved.

Also - QQ Blizz was hoping to get a look at some of the new Tanking Talents coming to Blood instead all I get to see is what I already predicted - buffed Weapon Damage because of less Runes overall.

I doubt the Masteries are 100% finished, Player Feedback will probably alter them in the end. For one thing "Life Shield" needs a re-name and a different icon ASAP!

[Apostolic]

Also remember haste will increase your regen, but it'll probably take a LOT of haste to get back to WotLK regen.
I'm not certain, not even 50% sure, but I think there was something about haste lowering melee GCD too, or am I wrong?

Yes there was a post stating that Haste would no effect the GCD of Melee abilities. This will make the DK class even MORE of an RP dump class (especially frost).

But yeah, no need to flip out when we do not know all the proposed changes to the trees as of yet.

[Alandris]

! I forgot that they're gonna change the whole rune system

considering the fact that we will no more spam our abilities and they'll hit considerably harder ( on the talent calculator Frost Strike =110 % weap. dmg) more rp will probably allow us to spam more FS and it could be a little OP ...

[Deleted]

Thats true assuming that the costs are final, and if they are they probably will change in Beta with Player Feedback. It's too early to say anything.

[Archeopteryx]

I think the RP gain from Frost is crap. Bear with me here; I'm thinking of this from a PVE perspective.

Currently, as DW Frost, I quite often have more RP than I know what to do with. I have a powerauras setting that shows me when I'm at or above 90% runic power, and my natural instinct is to dump it with frost strikes. There I am spamming FS and "shit, my diseases just fell off!". Wasn't in time with the pestilence, and now my rotation is fukt. My dps suffers as a result.

What do I need with even more RP?

For pvp? yeah, it's great. Oh wait, who pvp's as frost? durr...

Runes are changing, as a result, RP is going to be changing as well.

[Mordockk]

Sigh...it will all change with Cata.
Blizzard will offer more free gcds and more abilites that cost RP.
Just wait and see and don't start bitching about stuff without knowing anything.

moderator says don't voice your opinion.

[xeroxide]

! I forgot that they're gonna change the whole rune system

considering the fact that we will no more spam our abilities and they'll hit considerably harder ( on the talent calculator Frost Strike =110 % weap. dmg) more rp will probably allow us to spam more FS and it could be a little OP ...

but if the new system slows our runes, thus slowing down our runic power generation, i guess we would have less FS available to us then before.

still tho, i'm soooo curious.

and about the masteries, i like them... although i am little dumbfounded at unholy increasing only disease damage however frost increasing all damage? seems a little ufair, depends on the amount i guess... or perhaps its too early in the morning and i didn't read it right >.>


*edit* yup i didn't read it right... my bad. both frost and unholy increase all damage. just hope haste is as good a stat as they're trying to make it out for frost.