How important is it to be expertise capped?

[Orgatt]

Well, as the topic name says, how important is it to be expertise capped?

[Shullski]

Important

[Giigamesh]

it would depend on where you sit w/ exp, but yea its pretty important...

[Orgatt]

it would depend on where you sit w/ exp, but yea its pretty important...

Well, atm i sit with 20 exp, just replaced my 219 boots from toc5 with 264 boots from marrowgar. a big upgrade.
Tomorrow i will get saticfied head, replacing t9 head. That means i will loose even more expertise. SHould i start gemming expertise to get capped again?

[jobdone]

Well, atm i sit with 20 exp, just replaced my 219 boots from toc5 with 264 boots from marrowgar. a big upgrade.
Tomorrow i will get saticfied head, replacing t9 head. That means i will loose even more expertise. SHould i start gemming expertise to get capped again?

Yes.

[Estival]

i'd say it's the most important stat you have when not capped. you DEFINETELY should start regemming or spreadsheet whether your 219 boots are still better (cause they carry EXP).

try to go for Ikfiru's Sack of Wonder (gunship 25) + t10 legplates, this will nearly cap you, if you got the chance to get them.

[Argarock]

very.

0 expertise means 6,5% of your attacks WILL be dodged
that includes your 20k finishers (dunno if that's realistic, dont play a rOUge )

[Voij]

No need to be capped, just get close to the gap. Just take a look at your spreadsheets value for AP/ArP and then compare that with the value of expertise and calculate how much expertise you could waste for it to be worth gemming above the cap.

E.g.:
Expertise = 3 EP, AP = 1
You sit at 200 expertise-rating, 214 is cap.
Now 20 expertise vs. 40 AP gem, expertise would be worth 14*3=42, AP would be worth 40. Hence you'd pick the expertise one, even though almost a third of it would be wasted.

Not sure whether you needed to be told about this, might help others, though, so i'm gonna leave it here.

PS: To make things easier, expertise is usually about 2.4 EP for us
So for specs wih mediocre ArP-values, aswell as Rupture-Combat and Mutilate, you'd need to be able to use about 85% of your expertise-rating when gemming for it to be worth it. For ArP-hardcapping you'd usually need 19 to 20 out of 20 rating.

[Orgatt]

Ty for all good answers might be needed for others also.

[Amgyn]

I have entry level gear, so there isn't much expertise on it at this time...

I was using some java program from EJ to evaluate my upgrades, and the program doesnt seem to value expertise that much... I was a bit confused, but my DPS is increasing (obviously, going from a blue ilevel 200 with expertise, to a 232 with no expertise will net me a dps gain)...

maybe with my level of gear and content its not that important (no raids yet) /shrug.

[Voij]

I have entry level gear, so there isn't much expertise on it at this time...

I was using some java program from EJ to evaluate my upgrades, and the program doesnt seem to value expertise that much... I was a bit confused, but my DPS is increasing (obviously, going from a blue ilevel 200 with expertise, to a 232 with no expertise will net me a dps gain)...

maybe with my level of gear and content its not that important (no raids yet) /shrug.

Simple matter of EP. Example:

A has 100 AP, 50 Haste. B has 80 AP, 40 Haste, 30 Crit.
Which is better?

As Mutilate:
A has 100 AP, worth 100 EP. 50 Haste is also worth 100 EP, as 1 Haste = 2 EP. (Usually)
B has 80 AP, worth 80 EP. 40 Haste also 80 EP, 30 Crit is worth around 54 EP, with 1 Crit = 1.8 EP. (Should be correct)

So A has a total of 200 EP, B has 214, hence B is better. (Once you know your own EP-values or, in case of gear that's not in the spreadsheet, the general EP-values, then you can easily calculate whether an item is an upgrade for you.)

[Taalyn]

very.

0 expertise means 6,5% of your attacks WILL be dodged
that includes your 20k finishers (dunno if that's realistic, dont play a rOUge )

Just want to point out the part about your 20k finishers is only true if you are mutilate. Combat's finisher cannot be dodged when you spec into Surprise Attacks (which every Combat rogue does).

Not sure if you knew this. Between the talk of ArP and Voij's Mutilate examples (which could very well just be an example for EP explanation), I don't know if the OP is Assassination or Combat.

[Kelticfox]

I was using some java program from EJ to evaluate my upgrades, and the program doesnt seem to value expertise that much... I was a bit confused, but my DPS is increasing (obviously, going from a blue ilevel 200 with expertise, to a 232 with no expertise will net me a dps gain)...

The reason neither iDPS or the Spreadsheets compute for Expertise is because it can't differentiate the hard cap (132 or 26/26). As such Expertise was left out of the calculations.

However Expertise has the highest EP score until capped. This basically means that Expertise needs to be capped before you start thinking about other stats.

First and foremost this is the rule for Mutilate rogues, however not so much for Combat due to Surprise Attacks which makes finishers undodgable.


Basically put..... Expertise is THE most important stat.

[im a deathnight :O]

I think it is very important to be as close as possible to cap, think of it this way, you get dodged, you lose a hit, lose dps.. nuff said

[LeperHerring]

The reason neither iDPS or the Spreadsheets compute for Expertise is because it can't differentiate the hard cap (132 or 26/26). As such Expertise was left out of the calculations.

Patently not true. iDPS, spreadsheets and every single rogue DPS estimation tool includes expertise in the calculations and can calculate EP for exp. You're probably confusing it with the fact that many of them don't account for hard cap when they do gear recommendations (e.g., Aldriana's sheet is by default configured not to consider exp for gemming suggestions, which it can do if you enable that option).

However Expertise has the highest EP score until capped. This basically means that Expertise needs to be capped before you start thinking about other stats.

Both sentences are untrue. For combat ArP will overtake exp quite quickly. Even if exp has highest EP it doesn't mean you ignore every other stat while madly trying to cap it, for example, you'll still typically take 3 AP over 1 exp even under the cap if you have to make that choice when picking gear for example.

Basically put..... Expertise is THE most important stat.

It's a very good stat at many gear levels, but it's still a stat like every other.

[Taalyn]

It's only the stat if you are crit capping and even then an expertise/hit gem and a straight expertise gem can be better or worse.

Rogues ran around in Ulduar and sometimes ToC without being expertise capped and did just fine. A dodged Sinister Strike isn't the end of the world.

[Annoying]

Rogues ran around in Ulduar and sometimes ToC without being expertise capped and did just fine. A dodged Sinister Strike isn't the end of the world.

Mechanics have since changed. Expertise is our most valuable stat per point. Sure, being barely under is better than being way over, but it's still highly worth capping as any spec of rogue.

[Spoogles]

Ahhhh but remmber the good old Elitist Jerks Quote:

"These are just CAPS there is NOTHING SPECIAL about being on either cap, they are there to let you know wether or not you have gone OVER the cap."

thats all ;D

[moguri]

Mechanics have since changed. Expertise is our most valuable stat per point. Sure, being barely under is better than being way over, but it's still highly worth capping as any spec of rogue.

Not really. I'm in almost full BiS (minus LK heroic weapon) and ArP has a MUCH higher EP value than expertise. You yourself, if your armory is up to date, choose to gem ArP instead of expertise. So... why are you giving mixed/bad advice?

The best advice is always to check a spreadsheet.

[atroxes]

Mechanics have since changed. Expertise is our most valuable stat per point. Sure, being barely under is better than being way over, but it's still highly worth capping as any spec of rogue.

There never were any "magic" stats for a Rogue, that needed cap'ing under any and all circumstances. All it comes down to is the EP value of your stats and nothing else. You can argue that cap'ing Expertise gives you a more stable "feel" of your Rogue, since you're never getting your attacks dodged, but in terms of DPS, you only need to let your EP values guide you.