Markman agility gemed

[Thetry]

Hello i was before full arp gemed but when i took my last tier 10 i lost to mutch arp so i went for full agility gemed and i was thinking about go survival for less loot drama and to save dkp in guild (dont wanna waste all my dkp for tex polearm with arp.
Anyway the point is ( is the anything bad about Use MM specc and gem agility ? atm i got 35% arp and 2119 agility
And i belive i do more dmg now with full agility gem then i did with full arp gem
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...crest&cn=Tabby

[bobn9lvu]

With your passive arp ( from gear ), gem agil will give you better results.
I would enchant ice-walker to boots and move one point from focus aim to focus fire.
If you raid with a draenei, then you could pull the second point from focus fire and put it in efficiency.

[Fuger]

Hello i was before full arp gemed but when i took my last tier 10 i lost to mutch arp so i went for full agility gemed and i was thinking about go survival for less loot drama and to save dkp in guild (dont wanna waste all my dkp for tex polearm with arp.
Anyway the point is ( is the anything bad about Use MM specc and gem agility ? atm i got 35% arp and 2119 agility
And i belive i do more dmg now with full agility gem then i did with full arp gem
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...crest&cn=Tabby

If you are going to stack Arpen you need to be close to 100% (To get 100% you CANT use T10, it will Take t10.5 or better because the items lack the same Arpen that 10 ICC items have and 24 ToC has.
If you are going to stack AGI I would recommend going Survival.

[Irony]

If you are going to stack Arpen you need to be close to 100% (To get 100% you CANT use T10, it will Take t10.5 or better because the items lack the same Arpen that 10 ICC items have and 24 ToC has.
If you are going to stack AGI I would recommend going Survival.

Either you're retarded or a troll. I hope its a troll for your sake.

[Gawdliek]

You can gem ArP, just make sure you stay within 75% Atleast, so you can benefit from Feari & Sunder armor.
Or, gem 720 ArP, and get the trinket. <a href="http://www.wowhead.com/item=50198/ne...edle-Encrusted Scorpion.</a>

Aaaand. HELLO FELLOW RAVENCREST FRIEND<3 :-*

[Deleted]

You can gem ArP, just make sure you stay within 75% Atleast, so you can benefit from Feari & Sunder armor.
Or, gem 720 ArP, and get the trinket. <a href="http://www.wowhead.com/item=50198/ne...edle-Encrusted Scorpion.</a>

What have you done? :'(

100% is the cap. Target has two "sides" for ArP. From player and debuffs. Even if player has 100% ArP, theres still armor left on boss and you get it away only by getting ArP debuffs on it.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Armor_penetration

But to OP: Yes. Gemming ArP at 35% would be total waste and it only hurts. At 800 rating you can consider it. Even if spreadsheets shows that ArP gems are bout 100 dps upgrade it doesn't mean at all it would be. Little moving can make less auto- and steady shots, making agi gems better since chimera and arcane (yes you use it only while moving at 400-1300 whatsoever ratings) don't benefit from ArP. I myself started gemming ArP at 860 rating when sheet showed me bout 200 dps upgrade. Even then I felt I did less DPS in ICC fights.

[Mixon]

What have you done? :'(

100% is the cap. Target has two "sides" for ArP. From player and debuffs. Even if player has 100% ArP, theres still armor left on boss and you get it away only by getting ArP debuffs on it.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Armor_penetration

at the top of the section you are referencing it says in big bold letters "This is pre WowLK"

stack yous arp and do some tests 100% is 100% effectively 0 from all information i have found and all tests i have tried i can find no benefit to have sunders on the target when i am at 100%. i only tested this in a 15 min auto shot test 3 times with out sunders and 3 times with. proc rng i could not avoid and stay capped so there were some expected variance but there was no noticeable difference imo.


But on topic..... Yeah if you cant hit 100% i would recommend gemming agi and get 720 arp on your gear and using the scorpion if you feel strongly about mm. however i feel suv is in fact the most viable raid spec still from hunters who do not have access to FULL 264 gear or 277 gear, also that being said on any high movement fight you will see just as high if not higher numbers from suv as mm.

[Thetry]

At what % arp shoud i go back to gem arp to make a differense ?
How mutch arp % does dbw give me ?
And shoud i change rotation when i got so low arp atm i use 1 serpent sting 1 chimera 1aimed then spam steady shoud i use arcane shot?
And btw i got that ulduar 10 thorim trinket shoud i use it instead of war token or fanged skull ?

[Mixon]

At what % arp shoud i go back to gem arp to make a differense ?
How mutch arp % does dbw give me ?
And shoud i change rotation when i got so low arp atm i use 1 serpent sting 1 chimera 1aimed then spam steady shoud i use arcane shot?
And btw i got that ulduar 10 thorim trinket shoud i use it instead of war token or fanged skull ?

IMO untill you can get 900 static arp on gear you should not consider gemming for it...secondly DBW is almost a must in order to maintain the needed crit and ap lvls. (DBW = about 155 in normal) only use arcane shot when you are having to move and all other instant shots are on cd. thats a hear decision to make on the trinkets...all i can say for sure is try them out and come up with what works best for you.

also femaledwarf.com is a great place to get you baseline info and it seems pretty accurate about which items are best or better in your current build, its dps estimations seem to be slightly off but not to far.

[Thetry]

Last raid at Bloodqueen i used wartoken and fanged and i had about 9.7 k dps something and i tested fanged and mjolnir i did 10k maby lucky but today i will try to use mjornir and wartoken thank you

[Deleted]

at the top of the section you are referencing it says in big bold letters "This is pre WowLK"

At the bottom on same section there was big bold letters

"Now everything operates in percentages and stacks additively in two categories: Debuffs and personal Armor Penetration. The two categories stack multiplicatively with each other."

Its all on EJ forums too.

Hot Damn. Your tests rulz 8)

[bawkbawkboom]

Ugh, this has been said and said again on many a forum, yet still no one can be bothered to notice/research for themselves. Call me a whiner, but when it's in a lot of threads on this class discussion forum, it shouldnt have to be asked again.



This:

ArP is capped for 100% armour penetration at 1400 ArP on the character sheet, 100% effective ArP. This is a buff to YOUR OWN SHOTS. Armour debuffs on the bosses, such as sunders and Fearie Fire, lower the bosses armour, your armour penetration then 'ignores' the same % of the armour left after the reduction.

Lets give a bit of math to give an example:

lets say, for ease of sake, that a boss has 10k armour.

less 20% for sunders (I will only use sunders for this, but it all still applies, and you get the gist)

10k-20% = 8k armour.

This means that your ArP will negate a % of that 8k armour.

If there are no debuffs on the boss, and it has 10k armour, then your ArP will ignore the same % as before, but as the original armour number is higher, the % ignored, will also be higher.

75% ArP on a 10k armour boss = 2.5k armour.

10k armour with 20% sunders (8k armour) with 75% ArP = 2k armour.

And as the Poster above me said, you shouldnt be gemming ArP until around 900 static ArP. Until then, Agility nets you better returns .

Bawk.


Note: The debuffs/ArP work in this way as otherwise there would be absolutely no point in getting 100% ArP if sunders gave you -20%, you would only need 80% ArP to be capped....WHICH IS NOT THE CASE IN GAME. And would make ArP capping way to easy and a lot less unique to end game raiding.

[Mixon]

At the bottom on same section there was big bold letters

"Now everything operates in percentages and stacks additively in two categories: Debuffs and personal Armor Penetration. The two categories stack multiplicatively with each other."

Its all on EJ forums too.

Hot Damn. Your tests rulz 8)

i stand corrected! and consider my test results to be poorly conducted dew to the reg of gear proc leading to variances eclipsing the value of the sunders.

not need to be rude tho grow up and have a civilized discussion with the rest of us.

however the guy above me explained what i was trying to say better than i could.

[Mixon]

Ugh, this has been said and said again on many a forum, yet still no one can be bothered to notice/research for themselves. Call me a whiner, but when it's in a lot of threads on this class discussion forum, it shouldnt have to be asked again.



This:

ArP is capped for 100% armour penetration at 1400 ArP on the character sheet, 100% effective ArP. This is a buff to YOUR OWN SHOTS. Armour debuffs on the bosses, such as sunders and Fearie Fire, lower the bosses armour, your armour penetration then 'ignores' the same % of the armour left after the reduction.

Lets give a bit of math to give an example:

lets say, for ease of sake, that a boss has 10k armour.

less 20% for sunders (I will only use sunders for this, but it all still applies, and you get the gist)

10k-20% = 8k armour.

This means that your ArP will negate a % of that 8k armour.

If there are no debuffs on the boss, and it has 10k armour, then your ArP will ignore the same % as before, but as the original armour number is higher, the % ignored, will also be higher.

75% ArP on a 10k armour boss = 2.5k armour.

10k armour with 20% sunders (8k armour) with 75% ArP = 2k armour.

And as the Poster above me said, you shouldnt be gemming ArP until around 900 static ArP. Until then, Agility nets you better returns .

Bawk.


Note: The debuffs/ArP work in this way as otherwise there would be absolutely no point in getting 100% ArP if sunders gave you -20%, you would only need 80% ArP to be capped....WHICH IS NOT THE CASE IN GAME. And would make ArP capping way to easy and a lot less unique to end game raiding.

can you clarify this a little more? because this is the way i also was under the impression it worked. in which case 100% arp is 100% arp regardless of what debuffs are applied.

[Giethra]

I think we are getting a little off topic here, the op is asking if it's bad to use Agility gems while mm specced. I also have a hunter that I gem agility for and stay marks becase I dont have enough armpenn to support gemming for it and I absolutely hate survival. People always tell me to regem or respec but even with the mediocer gear that I have I can do 8-9k dps, So is there anything wrong with agi gems for a marks hunter?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n&cn=Oldwaffer

[Mixon]

I think we are getting a little off topic here, the op is asking if it's bad to use Agility gems while mm specced. I also have a hunter that I gem agility for and stay marks becase I dont have enough armpenn to support gemming for it and I absolutely hate survival. People always tell me to regem or respec but even with the mediocer gear that I have I can do 8-9k dps, So is there anything wrong with agi gems for a marks hunter?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n&cn=Oldwaffer

if you read thru our off topic posts..lol...the question is actually answer a few times in a variety of ways.

[Giethra]

I think you missed my point, are we gimping ourselves by playing an agi marks hunter, because personally I never see them anywhere

[bawkbawkboom]

can you clarify this a little more? because this is the way i also was under the impression it worked. in which case 100% arp is 100% arp regardless of what debuffs are applied.

Thats why it ignores a % of armour, not a static armour reduction.

I.e. 100% is always 100%. 80% is always 80%.

If it was a static reducion:

10k armour reduction on a boss with 10k armour is 100%
10k armour reduction on a boss with 30k armour is......33%.

That isn't fair tbh :P lol. hence why its a % Armour reduction, not a static armour reduction.

To answer the OP, as an MM hunter, you should be gemming agility anyway, until you hit about 900 arP just from your gear (in your agility gems). Once you hit around this number, then is the time to swap over to ArP. Only at high lvls of ArP can you see the difference. Until then, agility surpasses ArP. Check my hunter in my sig, Grubba, I still net about 8k dps as agi gemmed MM, yet I've not got the best of gear.

Bawk

[Mixon]

I think you missed my point, are we gimping ourselves by playing an agi marks hunter, because personally I never see them anywhere

would you be doing higher dps and be more versatile as suv at your gear level?...more than likely yes. but do you like playing MM? if so then you are making the best possible decision in order to make the spec you play the most viable.

[Flikt]

I think you missed my point, are we gimping ourselves by playing an agi marks hunter, because personally I never see them anywhere

No. Marksmanship is generally better with higher ilvl weapons. Agility is better until you reach a certain point where arp outscales it. I was gemming agility all throughout TotC and early ICC until i got DBW. Honestly, if you're not sure then you should be gemming agility.