Enhance ~ FT vs. Magma

[Primaryjane]

Up until last week our guild was running ICC 10 with 3 shamans, one of each spec. Now I am the only one and am getting pestered (by another melee) to drop FT totem instead of Magma to give the casters and healers the SP boost. As Enhance, this prevents me from using FN as well, because I have to keep FT in the middle of the room so everyone gets it. Is it selfish of me to want to drop Magma for my own personal damage?

[nellpyiwe]

it is selfish, you should do what the raid benefits the most from, most dps/healing
if raid gains more from your magma and FN dmg then do magma

[Butu]

Just tell them to be 30yd from the boss and use Flametongue totem. There are not many bosses where casters have to be at max range.

[weedman2885]

If you're running with a warlock, they should be speccing Demo before you start switching your totems. Yes, it's a dps loss for them too, but they provide so much more sp to the entire raid.

[XemnasXD]

as long as they realize its a DPS loss for you and they don't mind that then i guess you're better off dropping FT. If you really don't want to drop it then you'd have to prove that the DPS you get from MT+FN outweighs the DPS/healing increase they get from FT...that would be kind of tricky. TBH MT+FN use in ICC is minimal so while you'll see a drop in DPS i don't think it would be earth shattering and technically FT is a minor DPS boost for you as well...

i wouldn't call it selfish though to not want to drop it, i understand your sentiments on the issue completely but such is the life of an Enh Shaman...you could call it versatility i guess...but yeah i wouldn't be to pleased about having to drop two skills from my rotation...

[Oneleg]

as long as they realize its a DPS loss for you and they don't mind that then i guess you're better off dropping FT. If you really don't want to drop it then you'd have to prove that the DPS you get from MT+FN outweighs the DPS/healing increase they get from FT...that would be kind of tricky. TBH MT+FN use in ICC is minimal so while you'll see a drop in DPS i don't think it would be earth shattering and technically FT is a minor DPS boost for you as well...

i wouldn't call it selfish though to not want to drop it, i understand your sentiments on the issue completely but such is the life of an Enh Shaman...you could call it versatility i guess...but yeah i wouldn't be to pleased about having to drop two skills from my rotation...

If there is no other form of spellpower boost, then drop the FT, but FT is not a boost for enhance, its just less of a DPS loss then not dropping a fire totem at all.

[XemnasXD]

If there is no other form of spellpower boost, then drop the FT, but FT is not a boost for enhance, its just less of a DPS loss then not dropping a fire totem at all.

...which makes it a DPS boost.

Should i have said its a DPS boost compared to nothing? I thought that i made it clear that MT+FN is the superior choice for Enh so i figured when i said FT was a minor DPS boost the reader would realize that i wasn't comparing it to MT+FN but rather stating that its not as though an Enh Shaman will get nothing from a SP buff...next time i'll spell it out like that...

[Primaryjane]

...which makes it a DPS boost.

Should i have said its a DPS boost compared to nothing? I thought that i made it clear that MT+FN is the superior choice for Enh so i figured when i said FT was a minor DPS boost the reader would realize that i wasn't comparing it to MT+FN but rather stating that its not as though an Enh Shaman will get nothing from a SP buff...next time i'll spell it out like that...

hehe =D

I know spells like LB ES FS LL and FN all benefit from sp, so it's not MUCH of a DPS loss. Think I was more frustrated by the fact that it's a feral druid telling me to drop it (thinking because he's dead set on being the top dps) when the rest of the raid could care less.

[XemnasXD]

hehe =D

I know spells like LB ES FS LL and FN all benefit from sp, so it's not MUCH of a DPS loss. Think I was more frustrated by the fact that it's a feral druid telling me to drop it (thinking because he's dead set on being the top dps) when the rest of the raid could care less.

oh if the casters aren't complaining then fuck that guy...drop MT+FN lol

[Deleted]

I generally ignore the (perhaps negligible) need for my healers to have a SP boost unless they are actually struggling. So I consider my DPS, if there is only one caster Magma is likely better, but i'm not sure exactly how each DPS will benefit from FT. And if I do use FT, too bad - i'm putting it under the boss. Move closer.

[Nikoll]

The only healer that really benifits from more sp is a disc priest. Any other healer should have more than enough. If you have only one caster dps magma is more raid dps. If you have more than one than you have to start comparing your totem to there damage. Check logs to see. And ffs make them stand closer. They can't expect you to lose two dps abilities.

[Cracka_Bob]

I generally ignore the (perhaps negligible) need for my healers to have a SP boost unless they are actually struggling. So I consider my DPS, if there is only one caster Magma is likely better, but i'm not sure exactly how each DPS will benefit from FT. And if I do use FT, too bad - i'm putting it under the boss. Move closer.

The only healer that really benifits from more sp is a disc priest. Any other healer should have more than enough. If you have only one caster dps magma is more raid dps. If you have more than one than you have to start comparing your totem to there damage. Check logs to see. And ffs make them stand closer. They can't expect you to lose two dps abilities.

both of these sum it up... and even if you HAVE to use FT, you can bet that at least a few of the casters are either smart enough or just happen to be in the range of it

[Shamannii]

You dont completely throw away the SP either; While magma totem will increase your DPS ALOT more, spellpower is used as enhance as well.

Compared to dropping Wrath of Air instead of Windfury, You dont benefit from Wrath of Air at all (I think.. It might reduce your GCD but I think melee haste does that too.. Or maybe spell haste just reduces the GCD when spells are cast and Melee haste only reduces the GCD when melee skills are used. -shrug-) whereas you still do benefit marginally from flametongue totem

[Vargarii]

While I can't be entirely sure, and my numbers aren't completely accurate, as my logs seperate my pets/ft dmg from my dmg by spells list, The dmg from magma totem + FN is about 15% of my dmg in the past two weeks of raids.

I do not know if WoL adds in trash dmg, or dumps in favor of bosses(I'm leaning towards just bosses, because it's still 13-14% on my festergut fight), but using these numbers I lost between 1500-1600 dps from not using magma/fn.

This goes down if you include getting the sp buff, so I'll knock it down some. I don't know your exact situation, but I'd want to know if that totem is granting more than 1200 dps among whatever your casters are. If not, I'd keep my totem.

While the numbers aren't precise, they are close enough that if you only have 2 caster dps, it's possible you've got a shot at getting more dps out of your favorable totem than theirs.

[Vargarii]

Once I stopped being lazy, and actually went and did the real math, I was right about overall being 15.8%, but I now think this includes trash because the actualy festergut numbers were misread and came out to a combined total of 5.5% of your dps. I'm completely certain that your casters can pull out more than 5-600 dps from the sp especially when on top of the benefit you recieve, and even more so on fights enh sucks at.

So it turns out, there isn't much chance of you losing more dps than they would gain, afterall.

[Deleted]

If there is no other form of spellpower boost, then drop the FT, but FT is not a boost for enhance, its just less of a DPS loss then not dropping a fire totem at all.

Incorrect. We benefit from FT totem. We have lots of spells that benefit LB, FN, MT, ES, Flame Shock etc, around 50% of Enh damage is spellpower these ALL benefit from FT totem.

[Shawaam]

If the raids DPS+HPS gain is greater than your DPS loss, then use Flametongue.

One thing I can't understand though. Didn't you say you run with three shamans? One of each specc? Why doesn't the elemental use Totem of Wrath then?

[bliston78]

Your totems are a large buff, so buff, would you rather see a boss dead? or wave your E-peen around,

currently shaman are mostly a suport class, and i'd imagine that you have improved totems so it's almost another 200 SP that you can give to the casters/ healers

and so long as they don't Have to be max range bring them in a bit and use the totem for Fire Nova when you can, you'll lose a bit but the over all gain if you have an even group of caster/ melee caster group would be greater than your small gain in dps

[bliston78]

If the raids DPS+HPS gain is greater than your DPS loss, then use Flametongue.

One thing I can't understand though. Didn't you say you run with three shamans? One of each specc? Why doesn't the elemental use Totem of Wrath then?

he said that he's the only one currently so the strain is now on him

[raca]

Flametongue is terrible, your lock should spec demo. Flametongue is like 300 dps increase for each caster, tops. Demonic Pact is at least 1000.