Noob question - haste & enh

[IhatePvE]

Hi! Fast noob question - why haste nowdays are so good for enh shamys? Did it improve something more then just autoattack rate?..

[zera]

To say it short. More procs

[mikie0607]

More procs, and I believe haste reduces the GCD also, I could be false.

[The_Butcher]

More procs, and I believe haste reduces the GCD also, I could be false.

false

[zera]

false

true but not the melee gcd

[Deleted]

More maelstrom procs (with tier 9 4set bonus it's really great), flame shock ticks faster, windfury gets better as it procs maximum number of times when it's off cooldown, static shock procs more often (lightning shield).

I think also the wolves benefit from your haste.

[Durandro]

Yep, its all about the procs. Be it Windfury (though its choked with an ICD), Flametongue, Static Shock, Maelstrom Weapon, Shamantic Rage (mana regen) and various trinket effects.

Not to mention we prefer slow weapons, and haste scales better the slower the weapon is, and white damage is a large componant of our DPS.

[IhatePvE]

So if few warods:
1)more white hits
2)more ger procs
3)more MWP procs
4)more WF procs
5)more wolfes hits
6)more FB (in pvp) procs

Something more?

P.S. thx all

[Muffinator]

Haste reduces the GCD on spells you cast AKA Lightning bolt, shock, fire nova, so it a sense it DOES.

It's a double win. Lower spell GCD = more spell/abilities cast, more white hits, more procs, mana regen, judgements, etc.

[Deleted]

I like how you stack haste to unclog your rotation and make it easier to fit your spells in tightly, then haste gives you more MW and LS procs causing you to need more globals once again.

[Zinzu]

Haste reduces the GCD on spells you cast AKA Lightning bolt, shock, fire nova, so it a sense it DOES.

It's a double win. Lower spell GCD = more spell/abilities cast, more white hits, more procs, mana regen, judgements, etc.

Lol? judgements?

[Vargarii]

I think also the wolves benefit from your haste.

This is false. Wolves have a dynamic benefit from ap, and as such scale in real time with ap changes, but there is no haste benefit.

[Omanley]

Yep, its all about the procs. Be it Windfury (though its choked with an ICD), Flametongue, Static Shock, Maelstrom Weapon, Shamantic Rage (mana regen) and various trinket effects.

Not to mention we prefer slow weapons, and haste scales better the slower the weapon is, and white damage is a large componant of our DPS.

You forgot flame shock tick and spell global cooldowns. Also while sr does speed up ppm´s, you´ll normally never have problems getting enough mana out of it, haste or not. And trinket procs, much like wf procs, have icd´s, so haste doesn´t really benefit them ( the exception would be putricide´s taiaj ).

And about => the slower the weapon, the greater the haste benefit: that´s not really true
the benefit is still percental.

let´s say you hit unhasted with a 1.8 weapon for 250 dmg average per hit => 250/1.8 => 138.88 dps
let´s say you hit unhasted with a 2.6 weapon (same 138.88 dps ) for ( 138.88*2.6 ) => 361.11 dmg


let´s say you hit a dummy for 468 seconds ( 1.8*2.6*100 )
1.8 weapon hits 260 times for 250 => 65000 dmg
2.6 weapon hits 180 times for => 64999.8 dmg :P

let´s look at it hasted: ( 20% haste )
260 hits *1.2 => 312 hits for 250 each => 78000 dmg
180 times *1.2 => 216 hits for 361.11 each => 77999.76 dmg


as you can see, haste benefits auto attack dmg undependant of your weapon speed.
if it there´nt the case, 2h dps classes like ret paladin, fury warriors or blood dks would benefit most from haste, but this isn´t the case.

the classes benefiting most from haste are those with many procs:

enhancement: as mentioned msw5, static shock, spell gcd, flame shock ticks etc..

mutilate: the only melee spec bsides enh i know with a real liking to haste => focused attacks, more instant poison procs, faster deadly poison stacking for envenom ( dont know wether or not deadly poison ticks are affected by haste )

to a lesser degree:
combat rogue and marksman hunter

combat rogues have hack & slash, combat potency, instant poison procs, but haste´s benefit isn´t big enough to outweigh ap or Arp. Still, a nice stat to have on gear

marksman hunters have only wild quiver, and i dunno wether or not serpent sting benefits from haste. Aside from that, similar to combat rogues, Arp outweights it by a far margin.


ps: i know the above math isn´t pro-lvl, but i think it proves my point well enough .

[icetrix]

Probally more people said it but it comes down to this:

• GCD is faster, so faster till your things are on Cooldown and more space to reapply Lightning Shield and refresh totems
• Faster hits = More change to proc Windfury
• Faster hits = Moar Maelstrom Weapon procs (want to spell Mealstrom, it sure feeds )
• Makes character more awesome to see it swing fast

The biggest plus is more procs, and more space to reapply all your totems and shields

[Arcanefodder]

Im not sure about AFTER the flameshock buff, but in end game gear gemming AP simed to ALMOST the same.

Gemming AP over haste results in smoother add swaps harder hits etc, etc. so it's all about personal preference, and there are actually times in gearing that AP is a better option than haste. And if you play with a high amount of latency or framerate lag I'd go as far as saying AP will always be the better option unless you are painfully low on haste.

[Butu]

Im not sure about AFTER the flameshock buff, but in end game gear gemming AP simed to ALMOST the same.

Gemming AP over haste results in smoother add swaps harder hits etc, etc. so it's all about personal preference, and there are actually times in gearing that AP is a better option than haste. And if you play with a high amount of latency or framerate lag I'd go as far as saying AP will always be the better option unless you are painfully low on haste.

Haste is the best stat to increase your auto-attack dps, and auto-attack does not suffer from latency at all. Therefore this argument may not be always true, or at least I wouldn't accept it as truth before actually doing some intense in-game testing myself.

[booyakasha]

2 pages and the right answer hasn't been given yet?

SIM IT.

[Deleted]

2 pages and the right answer hasn't been given yet?

SIM IT.

if you actually cared to read his question, he did not ask which one is best, he asked why haste is so good for enhancement sometimes.

[Oldsaidfred]

Let me attempt to give the answer as I've come to see it.

The reason is not because of the flame shock buff. (Though that does help)

The reason is the t10 4p for enhancement.

(4) Set: Each time the beneficial effect of your Maelstrom Weapon talent reaches 5 charges, you have a 15% chance to gain 20% attack power for 10 sec.

Obviously the more damage you deal the better. However, the more maelstrom procs you generate the higher your chance of gaining 20% increased AP. There is already a large number of ap on gear as it is, so if you stack, and gem for haste, you will not only generate more damage, but also increase your chances to gain +20% ap.

Haste was not always king from what I understand. Haste is now king for this reason.
Correct me if you see this being wrong. Like I said, this is how I've come to see it with logic and reasoning.

[Omanley]

Let me attempt to give the answer as I've come to see it.

The reason is not because of the flame shock buff. (Though that does help)

The reason is the t10 4p for enhancement.

(4) Set: Each time the beneficial effect of your Maelstrom Weapon talent reaches 5 charges, you have a 15% chance to gain 20% attack power for 10 sec.

Obviously the more damage you deal the better. However, the more maelstrom procs you generate the higher your chance of gaining 20% increased AP. There is already a large number of ap on gear as it is, so if you stack, and gem for haste, you will not only generate more damage, but also increase your chances to gain +20% ap.

Haste was not always king from what I understand. Haste is now king for this reason.
Correct me if you see this being wrong. Like I said, this is how I've come to see it with logic and reasoning.

while more haste will help with more uptime of the 4pc proc, higher attackpower will increase the amount of the 4üc üroc itself.


enhancement shamans damage is to complex as to deside which one to be better merely because of one set bonus.

attackpower is a strictly linear stat. if you get x attackpower, y ability will deal z dmg more.
haste is only linear in white hit damage increase. it value raises exponentially however with the more haste your able to attain. that´s the reason we gemmed for ap in naxx and ulduar, and began to gem haste midway through colloseum.
in end game instances your haste lvl is high enough to give you crazy fast procing static shocks, msw, shorter spell gcd´s and faster flameshock ticks