Melee Classes should get Distant Closer or Snares removed

[Relina]

Blizz isn't going to do anything this radical before Cataclysm, and Cata is already looking to be radically different so who knows if this will even be a problem in the future.

Also, I like how it only took 3 pages to turn into a butthurt ret pally thread

[Wælcyrie]

Well as a unholy DK I dont really find frost mages much trouble its just when you constantly get rooted by frostbite when anti magic shell is down is what annoys me or you auto attack then get frostbited.

[Doomwise]

Just look at Paladins. They have nether,
and I agree, that make melee classes very Underpowered.

But when you have Both a Distant Closer and Snare and Burst,,
it just gets very out of hand.

IMO, Blizzard should remove of or the other. Not remove both like Paladins,
but at least remove 1 of the 2.

Warrior's have constant Distant Closers, and spamable snare.
Same for Rogues and DK.
Shamans also So So.

one of the two should be removed. Its just too OP. World of Meleecraft.

Paladins have neither snares, burst nor distance closing abilities? One of us is playing a different game...
Warriors need rage to spam Hamstring, and Warbringer got it's nerf. Stance dancing between charge and intercept eats lots of rage, GCD's and the cooldown isn't exactly making it spammable.
And of course my favourite in pvp, Entangling Roots followed by several Frostbolts. If I'm not dead 10 seconds later, you're doing it wrong.

[Zeuq]

There's a couple important points that either haven't come up, or haven't been emphasized

1. PVP is NOT balanced around 1v1.
2. You can't have everything.

The first point is mainly that, all things being equal, one class will often just have more of the tools that work better against another given class. As it's balanced around more Players, a Paladin brings things to the table that a Rogue or Warrior won't, but also needs others to bring things that a Rogue or Warrior otherwise might. As I understand, it's balanced around 3v3 these days; thus, expecting to have the tools to be able to effectively compete against every other class/spec 1v1 defeats the idea behind balancing in this manner.

The second is, compared to Rogues and Warriors, Paladins can't have all the stuns and distance closers that they do, because they have other things, like superior healing abilities, bubble, stuns, etc. If Paladins had the same number of stuns and distance closers, they'd either be ridiculously OP or they'd have to severely nerf or completely remove the those abilities, which then leads to further class homogenization.

Instead, the idea is that you should work with other players and other classes to fill in your weaknesses and use your strengths to fill in theirs. If you have 2 or more other people around you and they can't help you close that gap, even when you're doing your best to do so, then someone is failing, or you just have a really bad team composition.

If you don't like that idea, then you're maybe just playing the wrong class. Not every class can be everything to every person, so if you keep finding you want the class you play to be more like another class, maybe you just need to consider rerolling.

[Wexz]

I like how Rets compare themselves with Rogues and warriors.... You know because Retribution is a class and should have equal representation as a rogue and warrior, you know.....

well, the Ret spec is the meele spec for paladins, thats why i compare them to "rogue and warriors" and i know paladin is a hybrid class, but if you look at the other hybrids, almost all of them got some kind of a slow effect or snares, pally only got 1 stun and 1 incapacitate ability. thats why i find it fucked up that we have to respec to a Tanking spec to get the gap closer we need..

[Avalanch]

Wait what?

You have Judgement of Justice which cannot be shapeshifted out of so anyone cannot run from you unless its dispelled and you also have 15% movement speed increase without no downside.

Snare/Slow/Stun the paladin? HoF only lasts so long. You can also spellsteal it.. purge it.. You can also dispell the judgement.

[pomop]

PLATE AND HEALZ is so damn old that it died when Onyxia was released. You also included "can melee". No sh*t sherlock, we're a melee class. The pet is temporary and will be different dependant on spec (which sucks to be fair). Also, can heal. Yes, so can druids. Feral can even heal quite proficiently if they're good at shifting and CC. They can also stun in bear form and get free shield whenever they take damage. They can also use ranged spells, although not many.

Warriors, they can use a 3-min CD to heal for 30%. They can also pop this along with all their other cooldowns without any negative effect. They've got multiple stuns and can wear plate. They're also excellent distance closers. They've got a few ranged abilities and guns, but neither are anything to shout about.

DK's. They can heal based on damage done, have a pet, have a snare, have a distance closer, wear plate, have a spammable ranged ability (to some extent), can get their pet to stun.

See, i can pull up random good points about classes without having any foundation too!

Warrior heal also prevents (and requires) an enrage effect.

[Doomwise]

well, the Ret spec is the meele spec for paladins, thats why i compare them to "rogue and warriors" and i know paladin is a hybrid class, but if you look at the other hybrids, almost all of them got some kind of a slow effect or snares, pally only got 1 stun and 1 incapacitate ability. thats why i find it fucked up that we have to respec to a Tanking spec to get the gap closer we need..

Right, lets see. I'll charge you and lets say I'm lucky, i get a SD proc and wham you in the head with a 8k execute.

You throw HoJ on me, I can't even twitch for the next 5 seconds. That's 5 GCD's. I might be wrong here, but would that be DS, CD, Judgement, melee swing and something else I can't think of the top of me head now. Plus of course all the DoT effects that leaves.

That's what, 70% of my hp gone? All on a single stun. There is no need to mention that DS has healed you for a little amount, because I will be dead within the next GCD. Nerf warriors, buff paladins, am I right? *sigh*

[macke]

Paladins:
-Wear Plate
-Can heal
-Can use ranged spells (not many)
-Can melee
-Can stun
-Will be getting a pet in Cata
-Can bubble
-Can auto-full-health-heal

What more do you want?

Plate doesnt mitigate spells, 2 of thoose share the same CD (bubble = no LoH), both stuns are on 1 minute CD. Also no casters got interupt so we can basicly stand in the middle of evrything and start cast Holy Light, right?

Anyone with a half working brain can kill an Paladin.

[rm2k3guy14]

Trinket HoJ maybe?
Please don't reply saying you are pvping in full pve gear with no trinket, in such a case you can just GTFO PvE hero.

[njd.aitken]

Paladins have Blessing of Freedom
Warriors have a multitude of slows and charges.
Rogues have slows and imp sprint/others to remove snares.
DKs have chains, deathgrip, and so on.
Shammies have frost shock, earthbind

[macke]

Omg thoose OP Paladins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F82resGO2pU

With PvE abuse, notice the 277 weapon and heroic togc/icc gear.

[Doomwise]

Trinket HoJ maybe?
Please don't reply saying you are pvping in full pve gear with no trinket, in such a case you can just GTFO PvE hero.

I skipped that, I assumed it was obvious that if I trinket through that, he has Repentance to use still.

And most likely a rogue nearby, I love those moments ^^

[Flaks]

Paladins did have their time in the limelight but that is never a reason to keep them bottom of the barrel. The class is WAAAAY too easily kitable and though it has tons of team utility, the fact that ranged classes can man handle them easier than warriors is pretty freaking stupid.

JoJ needs to be buffed to a 50% slow just like hamstring and since paladins are getting an interrupt they need to be slightly penalized in the department that is their forte: burst. Imo wings needs to be reduced to 20% increased damange (like death wish); otherwise, their utility, and control will allow them to rise once again in bgs and arenas. They need to have more ways to 'line-up' burst instead of blow all cool downs and BAM BAM BAM hopefully kill the target. That's what ret pvp is atm.

I would go on to say nerf the ability of ranged classes to kite so well (*cough* mages *cough*) but that's just changing central game mechanics and I'm not even gonna try to go there.

That said, pallies make me cry as a warrior no matter what spec they are

P.S. ret pally vs. warrior is any absolutely one-sided match unless the pally is mentally retarded or undergeared. There's no point in arguing this because any retty that pops wings can kill a warrior through his shield wall and usually without having to use bubble.
Let's stay on the subject.

[Headayke]

Dear Blizzard,

Please nerf Rock. But Paper is ok.

-Scissors

thank you for the sig. lol +1 internets

[Wexz]

Right, lets see. I'll charge you and lets say I'm lucky, i get a SD proc and wham you in the head with a 8k execute.

You throw HoJ on me, I can't even twitch for the next 5 seconds. That's 5 GCD's. I might be wrong here, but would that be DS, CD, Judgement, melee swing and something else I can't think of the top of me head now. Plus of course all the DoT effects that leaves.

That's what, 70% of my hp gone? All on a single stun. There is no need to mention that DS has healed you for a little amount, because I will be dead within the next GCD. Nerf warriors, buff paladins, am I right? *sigh*

frist of all, if you probbaly specced ironwill so my stun only lasts for 4 secs, and if i can take away 70% of your health your using way to much pve gear m8.. and you might have you trinket up so my stun will be wasted from that..and 1 gcd is 1.5 sec so i can only get jugde+DS out and 1 meele swing, so thats not near 70% of your health, unless your pve geared..

[Marvy55]

Let's all cry together about our class cons, who cares about what's RIGHT with our class, it's never good enough. But when you get that new skill that makes you look like Boxer in SC with game-shark playing on IBM's BlueGene, everything is A-OK, and perfectly balanced. Face it, just buy some tissues, cry yourself to sleep at night and wait til you have the courage to quit this 'broken' (as everyone loves to call it) game. Hell, you might even win the lottery while you're at it. . .

Right. . .

[macke]

Paladins did have their time in the limelight but that is never a reason to keep them bottom of the barrel. The class is WAAAAY too easily kitable and though it has tons of team utility, the fact that ranged classes can man handle them easier than warriors is pretty freaking stupid.

JoJ needs to be buffed to a 50% slow just like hamstring and since paladins are getting an interrupt they need to be slightly penalized in the department that is their forte: burst. Imo wings needs to be reduced to 20% increased damange (like death wish); otherwise, their utility, and control will allow them to rise once again in bgs and arenas. They need to have more ways to 'line-up' burst instead of blow all cool downs and BAM BAM BAM hopefully kill the target. That's what ret pvp is atm.

I would go on to say nerf the ability of ranged classes to kite so well (*cough* mages *cough*) but that's just changing central game mechanics and I'm not even gonna try to go there.

That said, pallies make me cry as a warrior no matter what spec they are

Wings are 20% and have always been.


And theirs no Paladin in this world who can solo a decent healer with atleast 1000 resi, only way is a to make him trinket and HoJ -> Wings *evrything crits* -> BE silience -> Repetence *waiting for Judgement CD* -> Judge and hope for an crit.

THAT MIGHT BE 100%, but its not balanced around 1on1 anyway.

[Nialyah]

There's a couple important points that either haven't come up, or haven't been emphasized

1. PVP is NOT balanced around 1v1.
2. You can't have everything.

The first point is mainly that, all things being equal, one class will often just have more of the tools that work better against another given class. As it's balanced around more Players, a Paladin brings things to the table that a Rogue or Warrior won't, but also needs others to bring things that a Rogue or Warrior otherwise might. As I understand, it's balanced around 3v3 these days; thus, expecting to have the tools to be able to effectively compete against every other class/spec 1v1 defeats the idea behind balancing in this manner.

The second is, compared to Rogues and Warriors, Paladins can't have all the stuns and distance closers that they do, because they have other things, like superior healing abilities, bubble, stuns, etc. If Paladins had the same number of stuns and distance closers, they'd either be ridiculously OP or they'd have to severely nerf or completely remove the those abilities, which then leads to further class homogenization.

Instead, the idea is that you should work with other players and other classes to fill in your weaknesses and use your strengths to fill in theirs. If you have 2 or more other people around you and they can't help you close that gap, even when you're doing your best to do so, then someone is failing, or you just have a really bad team composition.

If you don't like that idea, then you're maybe just playing the wrong class. Not every class can be everything to every person, so if you keep finding you want the class you play to be more like another class, maybe you just need to consider rerolling.

This sums it all up.

[Doomwise]

frist of all, if you probbaly specced ironwill so my stun only lasts for 4 secs, and if i can take away 70% of your health your using way to much pve gear m8.. and you might have you trinket up so my stun will be wasted from that..and 1 gcd is 1.5 sec so i can only get jugde+DS out and 1 meele swing, so thats not near 70% of your health, unless your pve geared..

If I'm pve geared the it's prot gear, in which case I have a chance against paladins, and frankly I see no shame in saying that. Yes I do struggle against paladins in pvp, there, I saved some fuckers a lot of trouble.
On topic, I find paladins to get barely scratched when in a 1vs1 situation. Bubbles, healing, strong attacks, spells, stuns. Yeah I know charge and intercept stun as well, but I can hardly employ them when the said paladin is right behind me, with myself stunned and getting anally loved.
Only if I pvp in protection gear (with the trinket of course) do I ever find myself able to put up a fight against a paladin, not necessarily win, though that mostly depends on their skills and gear. At least I can fight off rogues, guess I can't have it all.