Finally resto bracers

[Ormula]

The "or whatever" implies that there could be other situations where we'd need to spam other high mana-cost spells. However, this is not a very practical argument. If you're going oom (or near it) on most fights, I have to wonder what it is you're attempting to heal. Granted, you *can* attempt to heal all damage that occurs on a fight, or you *can* attempt to spam heals on the tank when there's little raid damage going around, or you *can* spam rejuv on the raid at all times on every fight, but are you actually making a difference by doing so? These tactics might be good on some fights, but there are plenty of fights where you should attempt to focus most of your attention on a small number of tasks rather than trying to heal everything.

During Marrowgar, do you keep four hots on the tanks? If not, why not? Because it's not your task? Do you just... sit there, and then throw a rejuv on bone spikes, and wait until 8 seconds before bone storm to throw rejuvs around the raid?
On Deathwhisper/Gunship/Rotface/Blood Princes, do you nourish people who get hit with medium-level spikey damage throughout the fight? It's not your task, no, but what if the paladin/priest got Cursed/Infected/Fireballed?
Maybe it's just how I was "brought up" through guilds, but I feel like a wipe is 80% of the time the healers' faults. Sure, some wipes we have no control over, but we're there to carry DPS who don't move fast enough. If two people are next to each other on BQL air phase, yeah, they shouldn't be next to each other, but we should also be able to save the day and heal them. If someone dies, it's generally our fault. And if I can at least attempt to get a heal in there to heal him before he takes more damage, I'm going to. If I end a fight with ~10% mana, that's a good fight. If I end a fight with >30% mana, I feel I should have done more.

[Vespian]

As I've played an Ele Shaman as well as my current Boomkin, I can add that these bracers are on the wanted list for about all classes that cast spells and do not wear cloth. Right now though, I can only scream:

Boomkin bracers. Nuff said. In contrary to our Resto brothers, we actually _never_ ever, ever, ever, run out of mana. I can't begin to stress the most important word of this particular sentence, which is never. I'm talking about, having 95% mana left at the end of a hardmode ICC25/10 fight. That sort of never. Spirit is officially useless (*cough* of less value), so we're doomed to obtain a cloth equiv. and it's simply not going to happen very fast, when you have to argue that you're going to take perfectly itemized bracers away from ~8 clothies out of a 25 man raid. It's enough to start an angry mob (one that goes beyond just standing in front of the gate throwing rocks and waving torches...)

[Waterwings]

but I feel like a wipe is 80% of the time the healers' faults. Sure, some wipes we have no control over, but we're there to carry DPS who don't move fast enough. If two people are next to each other on BQL air phase, yeah, they shouldn't be next to each other, but we should also be able to save the day and heal them. If someone dies, it's generally our fault. And if I can at least attempt to get a heal in there to heal him before he takes more damage, I'm going to. If I end a fight with ~10% mana, that's a good fight. If I end a fight with >30% mana, I feel I should have done more.

You sir, won my respect. Yes wipes are the to be blamed to the healers cause you can heal most fights with 4 healers, and have 2 for the "extra" fails that happen. No guild is failproof, and there has to be something to be save / buffer.

anyways ot: the bracers are good, but a healer still doesnt need gear as much as a dps. Crit is as good as wasted on a resto druid, so give it to a dps, or a paladin/shaman that can benefit every stat on these bracers.

Personaly im a discpriest, and im sure as hell gnna love the cloth bracers... ^^
http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/53486/b...f-fiery-night/
<3333 red socket! which actualy makes it better for all non int/haste gemming classes.

[Dendrek]

During Marrowgar, do you keep four hots on the tanks? If not, why not? Because it's not your task? Do you just... sit there, and then throw a rejuv on bone spikes, and wait until 8 seconds before bone storm to throw rejuvs around the raid?
On Deathwhisper/Gunship/Rotface/Blood Princes, do you nourish people who get hit with medium-level spikey damage throughout the fight? It's not your task, no, but what if the paladin/priest got Cursed/Infected/Fireballed?
Maybe it's just how I was "brought up" through guilds, but I feel like a wipe is 80% of the time the healers' faults. Sure, some wipes we have no control over, but we're there to carry DPS who don't move fast enough. If two people are next to each other on BQL air phase, yeah, they shouldn't be next to each other, but we should also be able to save the day and heal them. If someone dies, it's generally our fault. And if I can at least attempt to get a heal in there to heal him before he takes more damage, I'm going to. If I end a fight with ~10% mana, that's a good fight. If I end a fight with >30% mana, I feel I should have done more.

You gravely misinterpreted my post to mean I suggest doing the bare minimum. I'm not a lazy healer. I keep hots on those that need it (tanks, people who take or will take damage, etc). My post was discouraging trying to unnecessarily snipe-heal or to overheal with reckless abandon. That doesn't mean I discourage hotting up multiple targets or casting nourish when necessary.

You assume that because I say I don't have mana problems than I must not be doing my job (or that possibly that I'm a narrow-minded healer). If so, you're wrong.

[Asmin]

my Gear o n0ze says that thats obviously Priority Resto shamans > resto druids

[Ormula]

You gravely misinterpreted my post to mean I suggest doing the bare minimum. I'm not a lazy healer. I keep hots on those that need it (tanks, people who take or will take damage, etc). My post was discouraging trying to unnecessarily snipe-heal or to overheal with reckless abandon. That doesn't mean I discourage hotting up multiple targets or casting nourish when necessary.

You assume that because I say I don't have mana problems than I must not be doing my job (or that possibly that I'm a narrow-minded healer). If so, you're wrong.

There is a difference between "Having mana problems" and "using your mana". Let's say your guild is running five healers like most guilds do, and every healer comes out of a healing intensive fight with 50% mana. Why are you running five healers then? Why not bring in an extra DPS, and have the healers stretch their mana pools? What's the point in saving all that mana?

[Mewseph]

GCD's. X Healers spot healing are going to save more lives than X-1.

Raid damage is rarely consistent (BQL/FG are probably the closest you'll get), a lot of fights required spot healing or fights like Marrowgar, phases.

[Amirite]

There is a difference between "Having mana problems" and "using your mana". Let's say your guild is running five healers like most guilds do, and every healer comes out of a healing intensive fight with 50% mana. Why are you running five healers then? Why not bring in an extra DPS, and have the healers stretch their mana pools? What's the point in saving all that mana?

In a lot of fights our healers all end with >95% mana, should we go 0 healers then ?

[Blizzyb]

In a lot of fights our healers all end with >95% mana, should we go 0 healers then ?

No more than 1 or you're running inefficiently.

[Jibjabb]

I dont think anyone can say these are bracers for this spec/class. If its BiS for you then it is BiS for you. Theres no ifs or buts about it. It doesnt matter what other classes want it as well. Many Leather pieces are BiS for Warriors, they dont have to wait for the rogues/ferals to get the pieces before them and if they do then their raid is being poorly ran.

But Im not sure why people arent mentioning the fact that... THE CLOTH BRACERS ARE BETTER ANYWAYS. Red socket and more haste than crit. Clearly the superior item. So GG Blizz in itemizing the cloth as BiS once again creating more competition

As for the healers mana debate. You dont bring healers so they use all their mana, their job is to keep everyone alive. You can do this ending the fight with almost all your mana intact it doesnt really matter. So Id much rather bring 5 healers ending up with 75% mana than have 4 healers and the raid ending up dead.

[Amirite]

No more than 1 or you're running inefficiently.

Do you really believe a 25 man ICC raid can be solo-healed ?

[FailTree]

I guess you're not doing hardmodes if all your healers have >95% mana at the end of a fight, if so, they're gods or you guys are just superrrrrr awesome at avoiding damage.

[Myrrar]

If you have all healers ending with 30% mana+ you can drop one. If you have a few at 50% mana+ you need to assign healing better. In reg you can 3 heal it, esp at 20%. You should never need more than 4. In heroic you can 5 heal besides a few select bosses, and a few of them you can 4.

If you are a resto druid, in 25 hardmodes, rejuv blanketing the raid, and coming out with a lot of extra mana you are using the wrong stats.

Healing stats is simple. Have extra mana? Change gear, enchants, gems, whatever, to less regen. If you are going oom, change to more regen. No druid will be the same. Every guild runs differently.

In reality, the best set up is using as few healers as you can and having them all almost oom at the end of the fight.

Posting a WoL when you have 6+ healers every fight for normal and heroics....there is your problem. I would have tons of extra mana too. The only fight we take more than 5 is Heroic Sindra because we have found it easier than bringing in extra dps..

[Rakydei]

you guys dó know that having mana doesnt mean you can magically increase your healing done with that mana? If I end the fight with > 50% mana that doesnt mean I would have been able to keep up with that blood-bold-chaining-on-sindra-HC-air-phase burst damage. You shouldnt just look at with how much mana you end your fights with to look at how many healers you want to take. Of course, when every healer has like 80% overhealing and is on 50% mana at the end of the fight, you know something's wrong

[Dendrek]

I think this idea that the best healer comp is the one where you bring only enough healers that they should be nearly oom by the end of the fight is a terrible philosophy. In this theoretical scenario, the healers would be mana, gcd, and healing throughput capped. What would happen then if RNG suddenly kicked in and a burst of damage on the raid overwhelmed the healers' capabilities and they simply can't heal through it? Or what happens if they end up using more mana than normal to cover that burst of damage and end the fight completely oom? This philosophy is far from realistic.

It is true that you should bring as few healers as are needed to fights, but you shouldn't base that number on how close to oom the healers are when they end the fight. Unless you are dealing with a very tight enrage, you aren't forced to bring a bare-minimum number of healers. There's no harm in bringing 1-2 extra healers just to be safe. After all, the fewer healers you bring, the greater the likelihood that people will die. No matter how good those healers are, if you bring too few, people will die. It may not happen on every attempt, but it's inevitable.

[edit] This thread has gone way off topic...

[Myrrar]

That's why I said that would be the "best".

Does that always happen? Of course not. There is always a chance of RNG. But for maximum output that is what you would be wanting to aim for.

If people aren't doing their jobs and people are dying, it doesn't how much mana you have, if you have full 277 gear, or all your dps are doing 20k, that's a whole different problem.

But, if you aren't having healing problems and people aren't dying yes, you should start replacing healers with dps. On farm bosses there is no reason to bring extra healers if they aren't needed unless it's a crazy healing fight like HSindra. We have had her on farm for since the beginning of March and we still bring 6 healers just in case. We haven't wiped on her in months.

But on any fight besides her faster is better to endgame progression guilds. If you have 6 or even 5 healers, no one is dying and there are no problems, and they are all still at 30% mana, you can easily have go dps.

We always try and cut down healers to add a dps and have never had a problem with people going oom. Having all your healers under 30% mana is no where near running them oom by the end of the fight. There is no reason your healers should need more than that even with bad RNG.

[Jurik]

Fact remains that with proper gear/spec/raid, resto druids hit the GCD lock before they become mana constrained. In fact, most healers do this. In light of that fact, the suggestion to "drop healers if your healers end the fight with >30%" is dumb, because once you meet the raid dps benchmarks, the difference between a wipe and a kill is how many spare cycles your healing crew has when things inevitably go wrong.

Sure, you can drop a healer and kill the boss 5% faster, but is saving that 10-15 seconds worth occasionally wiping and costing 10+ minutes running back, rebuffing, and redoing the fight?

Also, I mentioned this earlier: for pala and shaman, the 277 mail bracers from ICC are better than the 271s from Ruby Sanctum. Have yet to see the stats on the 284 bracers, but those will probably be best for everyone. Any srs bsns guild won't be giving the RS 271 wrists to mail/plate casters, as they will already have better.

[Myrrar]

If the difference between your wipes and kills is your healers alone you need better players.

There is RNG in every fight pretty much in hardmodes. If you have been farming hardmodes with no healing problems, you drop a healer because no one is dying and the healers aren't being run dry, and you die because of an RNG, that's has nothing to do with keeping that extra healer.

If in princes for some reason the fire ball hits the melee an extra healer isn't going to help you.

This is why I've said multiple times, this would be the "BEST" set up. We have been dropping heals like crazy and have had no problems that could have been prevented by not dropping that healer. None. Most RNG your entire raid should be able to easily react and recover from.

If you are still wiping on bosses that aren't ArthasHM then you need to keep as many healers as you need. But once you hit the point that you have done the bosses so many times, have delt with all the different random RNG, and your healers are sitting at too much mana and are bored, yes, you should be able to replace one. The same way once you get a fight down and you see that you don't need 2-3 tanks you have one go dps. We beg to start having healers respec because everything besides Sindra has become stupidly boring to heal.

Endgame is all about maxing, and sometimes that extra dps is well worth dropping a healer that you do not need.

And about the braces, they are going to be sidegrades for most peoples BiS. Debating if a moonkin or resto should get it 1st is dumb. No, resto druids don't use crit a lot. But yes, these have haste on them unlike any other leather spell bracers in ICC.