Will raiding ever be as EPIC as this ever again?

[PrettyBiased]

When you give something to everyone, it will never be an epic experience. Raiding for the entire community killed the epic feel because getting to the boss is no longer a reward it's a given.

[Neptulon]

Vanilla raiding > TBC > Stop playing until cata > WOTLK

[Blinke]

Well, the thing about it being 'epic' shouldn't have been that you were a special little snowflake and the specialist little snowflake in teh whole wide wurld! If you felt that, then I am terribly sorry for you...

It was the fact that it took a behemoth effort to even GET there...in Vanilla, you raided in blues and THEN got epics (which made it, well, epic ) in BC, you could gear up through heroic badges, but you were still locked out of them after a day, and pugging was simply out of the question. It merely took a group of like-minded individuals to accomplish something, not unlike rl, but I digress

Basically, they really made raiding more accessible, so..that's what the beef is? That your 14.99 a month no longer makes you unique? That's sad, not pathetic sad, but depressing sad. The general 'casual' playerbase is conceptualized as some kind of retarded 14 year old who wears a helmet indoors and plays ret paladin because it's 'super cool!' when in reality, they are college students with time consuming courses, adults with careers and goal, family guys (yeah I went there) who have family commitments, single parents, and yes, those few basement dwellers, and also the players who are merely trying to get their lives back in shape after high school and live with their parents.

And even then, BC raiding wasn't even remotely hardcore. Unless you wanted to level an alt...say your guild wanted a druid tank. Well, aside form non-heirloom leveling, you now also have to gear out at max level. The options are to farm heroics/kara and za, and also maybe do some alt-runs of old content like tk and ssc to get lucky on some drops, but that was it. Now? You can blaze up to 80, gear through pugging heroics quickly, especially as a tank or healer, and get pretty much geared in at most a week with some reasonable breaks and such.

With gear so easy to obtain, having tier bonuses through effort and not luck, players find they can do their jobs much easier, and thus the overall effect seems to cheapen itself. In original naxx, did players do the raid with the 2 pc bonus from there? Not many I would presume. And that's my soapbox on that.

[Lotharion]

Raids are harder now, even with the homogenization and massive amount of utility we all have.

Ulduar hard mode bosses hold the record for most time taken to go down, far longer than any previous bosses. Not surprisingly, I also consider Ulduar the dungeon I've enjoyed most.

Vanilla raiding sucked. Really sucked. TBC was only slightly more interesting, but grindy attunements were still rampant and bosses weren't THAT interesting. Better than Vanilla by far, but not as good as Ulduar/ICC.

Naxx10/25 and TotC both kinda let down WotLK raiding. The shining redemption was Ulduar though, that was a great dungeon.

[Blinke]

Raids are harder now, even with the homogenization and massive amount of utility we all have.

Ulduar hard mode bosses hold the record for most time taken to go down, far longer than any previous bosses. Not surprisingly, I also consider Ulduar the dungeon I've enjoyed most.

Vanilla raiding sucked. Really sucked. TBC was only slightly more interesting, but grindy attunements were still rampant and bosses weren't THAT interesting. Better than Vanilla by far, but not as good as Ulduar/ICC.

Naxx10/25 and TotC both kinda let down WotLK raiding. The shining redemption was Ulduar though, that was a great dungeon.

Well, that's the given. Most players are too busy looking through their ruby shades, raiding TWO Lk raids a week and blasting through content and possibly haven't even taken down Arthas in REG much less heroic, and complain that raiding is way too easy

Not anyone in this thread obviously, but you know the guys. And no that wasn't sarcasm, I am almost positive that everyone has taken down LK (save me, I've been busy trying to get a job since January ;D) in here.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

TBC Raiding > Vanilla Raiding > No Raiding > LK Raiding

More Like TBC RAiding > WotLK raiding (HM's, normals doesn't count) > Vanilla raiding was terrible

[Ylera]

Wotlk raiding > Vanilla raiding > TBC

Differing opinions are fun!

[Drihan]

Sadly I wasn't able to raid during vanilla, but I did get up to BT in TBC. Even after I killed the LK for the first time, I never got as excited as I did when I got Illidan down for the first time, could be that I have raided so much that it doesn't feel so special anymore, but I think that it's because the Illidan fight was more exciting. The LK fight is really good, don't get me wrong, but it was just a better feel to it back in vanilla and TBC, now there are all these welfare epics and you can get into ICC after 4-5 days.

[Jasper Kazai]

And I want Zul'Aman 2. Please Blizzard, give me Zul'Aman 2. Please.

I know, right? I don't see why Blizzard dropped their trend of adding in a troll raid. There was a whole goddamn troll temple to do it in! Who cares if you already had two 5-man troll dungeons, we wanted a Northrend troll raid! Instead we got Trial of the Crusader. Damnit, Blizzard.

[Blinke]

Sadly I wasn't able to raid during vanilla, but I did get up to BT in TBC. Even after I killed the LK for the first time, I never got as excited as I did when I got Illidan down for the first time, could be that I have raided so much that it doesn't feel so special anymore, but I think that it's because the Illidan fight was more exciting. The LK fight is really good, don't get me wrong, but it was just a better feel to it back in vanilla and TBC, now there are all these welfare epics and you can get into ICC after 4-5 days.

You didn't raid vanilla, yet throw around the term welfare epics? Huh?

And the reason why raids are no longer fun is the law of diminishing return. No, I don't mean the rule that cc's can't last indefinitely, the principle that the marginal production of a factor of production starts to progressively decrease as the factor is increased, in contrast to the increase that would otherwise be normally expected.

Yes that is wikipedia, but it says it just the same as my economics coursebook oddly enough.

Basically, my favorite exercise, was to eat a Hershey's chocolate Kiss. Then eat more, in quick succession. The enjoyment of the first is much higher than that of the latter because of this law.

[Intrumwow]

TBC was the best and you know it! Shatt lag ftw

[Paladin885]

there are many fights throughout the years in all 3 chapters of WoW that are epic.

things that are epic now (or rather, "were" when they were new or progressive)
-Sarth 3D 25man
-All 4 keepers and Auriaya (constant moving and dodging is fun imo)
-[healing] General Vezax
-Sindragosa
-Lich King

Now that list is mainly fun factor for me personally in my experience but some of you might see them as fail. To each his own imo


Now for the older stuff it was the same deal with me. Looking back I laugh and some of their simplicities but back when WoW was less-evolved as it is now, they were, indeed, epic. (same deal, when it was progressive)

-High Priestess Arlokk
-Jin'do
-Onixia
-General Rajaxx
-twin emp's
-C'thun
-the 4 world dragon bosses on a PVP server
-4 horsemen and Kel'Thazad (40man)
-Malchehzaar
-Magtheridon
-Jan'alai
-Akil'zon
-hex lord
-A'lar (burn baby burn...)
-Kaz'rogal (I still lol @ enh shammies and ret's to this day... you guys made that fight worth while)
-Reliquary of Souls
-Gorefiend
-Illidan
-Kil'jaeden

[Crazhr]

In vanilla: Normal wow sucks, you cant get 40 decent people, you need way to much res gear farming and tbc is going to be so much better!

tbc: Tbc raiding sucks, its not fun haveing to first do 10man before you can do the "real" raiding. It sucks that there are so few bosses and they dont seem epic at all. Naxx and aq 40 was so much better.

Wolk: Wolk raiding sucks its not fun. Way to much free gear and no sence of progression TBC raiding was so much better.


Nostalgia is fucking powerfull and can lead to a shit ton of rage, anger, hatred and very very poor decisions.


Another thing you cant expect to change and develop as a person but still being blown away by the same stuff. It would be like expecting that you should still get the same chill as the first time you were driving a car or even a bike. If that was the case then children today should be just as blown away by space invaders or ping pong as they parrents were 30years ago. Things change and it would be quite sad if you as a person were stuck and never had any changing opinions about anything even wow.

[Izenhart]

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=76991

The game has improved no doubt, but no one can deny what originality and epicness we have lost from the game.

Not a QQ, just an observation. Hopefully the game will be as epic as this in the future some time.

Lol...

Do you have any idea of how many guilds managed to kill Kil'Jaeden pre-nerf?

epicness WE HAVE LOST from this game

You ain't lost anything. 20 Guilds in the world may have had, and this ain't hurting anyone.

[Blinke]

In vanilla: Normal wow sucks, you cant get 40 decent people, you need way to much res gear farming and tbc is going to be so much better!

tbc: Tbc raiding sucks, its not fun haveing to first do 10man before you can do the "real" raiding. It sucks that there are so few bosses and they dont seem epic at all. Naxx and aq 40 was so much better.

Wolk: Wolk raiding sucks its not fun. Way to much free gear and no sence of progression TBC raiding was so much better.


Nostalgia is fucking powerfull and can lead to a shit ton of rage, anger, hatred and very very poor decisions.


Another thing you cant expect to change and develop as a person but still being blown away by the same stuff. It would be like expecting that you should still get the same chill as the first time you were driving a car or even a bike. If that was the case then children today should be just as blown away by space invaders or ping pong as they parrents were 30years ago. Things change and it would be quite sad if you as a person were stuck and never had any changing opinions about anything even wow.

Damn homeboy, hitting wif dat troof right thur!

[Lotharion]

Basically, my favorite exercise, was to eat a Hershey's chocolate Kiss. Then eat more, in quick succession. The enjoyment of the first is much higher than that of the latter because of this law.

But what if I enjoy the second one EVEN MORE!?

Metaphors involving human thoughts and feelings probably aren't the best metaphors :P

[Wælcyrie]

Well my guild did LK 25 man normal last week, he still hits like a truck and we almost wiped at the end because one of the healers got killed by a spirit that got spawned from my body and the tank lost aggro on it then I saved the day on the last phase before 10% doing army of the dead so all the vile spirits or what ever they was called got tanked in the middle by ghouls then we got him to the phase where he couldnt do anything.

That's what you call epic.

[Paladin885]

Another thing you cant expect to change and develop as a person but still being blown away by the same stuff. It would be like expecting that you should still get the same chill as the first time you were driving a car or even a bike. If that was the case then children today should be just as blown away by space invaders or ping pong as they parrents were 30years ago. Things change and it would be quite sad if you as a person were stuck and never had any changing opinions about anything even wow.

haha aint that (bold) the truth. But going back to your paragraph here, you're forgetting one thing... humans hate change :P

[Jademist]

Raiding is always fun.

Whiners make it not fun by whining too much about it. Seriously, quit the freaking game if you don't like it anymore. >.>

[Ger9nG]

Subjective opinion is subjective opinion.

If you thought Vanilla was epic, I guess the location for the new expansion is a nice change of scenery compared to the last two.