Will raiding ever be as EPIC as this ever again?

[Paladin885]

Subjective opinion is subjective opinion.

If you thought Vanilla was epic, I guess the location for the new expansion is a nice change of scenery compared to the last two.

yeah, every time I see someone saying "I want a pre-2.0 lvl 60 server again!" (or anything pre-tbc relating to a "retro server") I post with a list of pro's and con's of their class of then and now. Then I ask if they really want to step back in the past to that.... and then end with a lol.


when its a ret paladin making that request I rolf.... endlessly. (while linking a paladin 1.1 talent tree)

[Fenixdown]

My question is this. Why do so many people have this selfish opinion that if other people can do what you are doing (or, rather likely, HAVE done) it is less appealing?

46 other guilds have downed Lich King in heroic mode in some fashion since Paragon. Paragon players aren't sitting around bummed at their world first because "omg these noobs are downing this ezmode s&*^, man eff this game and eff Blizz for catering to casuals".

Who cares what a pug did two, or perhaps three, or perhaps MORE months later than you did? How on Earth does that make your accomplishments in your guild any less worthy of merit? Heck, I'm in the group of guilds that are 11/12 normal and I'm quite proud of that. Do I brag? No, it's not an extraordinary feat. But, heck, I actually enjoy the interaction with my guildmates and beating content together as a group. I don't care what other guilds have done before us, or what other guilds might do after.

This leads me to only one logical conclusion. People that say "more people clearing content = less epic feel" hate their guild. Like, probably not hate their guild in the fact that they actually would wish to be elsewhere, but they have absolutely no interaction with these people whatsoever. We have a person who left the server's top guild to join ours simply for the fact that in that guild, gchat was a virtual deadzone and barely anyone spoke to each other. I mean, I have yet to grasp this concept of playing a multi-player game as though you're playing by yourself and, oh yeah, other people can play with you. Do none of you own a Wii or a GameCube? Has nobody ever known how fun it is to just sit down with friends, play a game for FUN, and then afterwards say "same time next week guys"? I mean, when me and my friends sat down and played X-Men Legends together, we didn't care who had beaten it before us. We didn't care if the game was super hard or not. We ran around with our mutants and beat the shit out of Sentinels and said stuff like "Hey Igor, fastball special!".

When I do down Lich King in some capacity (likely 10-man first, our 25s have been spuradic on attendance after Tuesdays...sigh), and I do say when because we're getting to p3 rather consistantly with our core group, I'll sit back and watch the cutscene (which I've refused to watch since it was leaked) and I'll smile and be happy. I beat the Lich King. I did it. I don't care who else did it. I did it, and that's what I play the game for. What did I and my friends do in this game? Not what did some random people I'll probably never talk to or see do that makes me feel better or worse about myself.

Some of you really need to learn the meaning of "social interaction". Personally, THAT is what makes this game feel epic. Being able to log in and make it not feel like a chore. Being able to log in and say "hey, let's go do Uld10 HMs for fun". Who cares if it's old since 3.1? It's still FUN! That's what a VIDEO GAME is all about!

If you're playing an online game to feel like some kind of special little snowflake, people, sorry but you seriously need to go do something with yourselves and figure out what you're doing wrong. Because it's not Blizzard that's making the game feel "less epic". It's you.

[Atrea]

I think one of the most unique and interesting - albeit not very 'epic' - fights was Valithria Dreamwalker.
I think it's self-explanatory.

[Gyrllsbear]

What defines an epic raid? Raids used to be epic because they were something people were getting used to. Bosses were undertuned and had a lot of bugs making them stupidly hard in some cases. Guilds without experience progressed slow because of this and gear was terrible. Yes, the raids were large but how many of us paid attension to the number of people in the raid? The only time that became noticeable was when there was a wipe and healers had to ress everyone.

Raids were harder purely because bosses weren't balanced. When ever a new raid was released in Vanilla it was obvious atleast 1 boss would be impossible to kill.

Not only this but the actual instance designs were terrible in vanilla. Molten Core was simply ragefire chasm scaled up. Onyxia's lair was a tunnel.

It seems to me that what made old raids epic in many peoples eyes was the difficulty. However, that difficulty was largely because the raid wasn't balanced. Raids these days have hardmodes to make up for the much more balanced bosses in the game today. Boss fights seem more fun, more engaging and the instances themselves are stunning in comparison to the old ones.

I think it is simply the fact that people have been doing raids for 5 years now and like anything else it's starting to lose its spark. If someone did pvp for the past 5 years then did a raid for the first time I imagine they'd view that raid as epic, where as someone who's done lots of raids for a long time won't.

[Karsaorlong]

Here is to hoping Rift or Tera will bring back great raiding.

[hermansen]

That video was pure epicness , hope Blizz will keep the game epic to the end of its days

[Lord Genn Greymane]

Not this shit again.

User was temp banned for this post.

[Dexiefy]

TBC Raiding > Vanilla Raiding > No Raiding > LK Raiding

Vanilla Raiding > TBC Raiding > No Raiding > LK Raiding

Fix'd

AQ along with its event beats whole TBC

[Longview]

method's kj video was far better than sk gaming.

Agreed.

"GUYS MY COCK IS SO HARD RIGHT NOW"

[cubby]

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=76991

The game has improved no doubt, but no one can deny what originality and epicness we have lost from the game.

Not a QQ, just an observation. Hopefully the game will be as epic as this in the future some time.

Yeah, actually, most of us can deny your point - quite easily in fact. Along with the multitude of improvements to the game, the end boss encounters have gotten tougher and tougher - and hence more and more epic (not all of them, of course). There is no doubt in anyone's mind that the LK heroic fight is perhaps the most epic fight in the game to date.

While some of the vanilla bosses were nuts, and the downing of Ragnaros will always be a fond memory for myself, it doesn't even come close to comparing to Kil'Jadeen (your movie) and a few of the Wrath bosses. But nothing compares to the heroic LK fight - both in complication, difficulty for each member and phases. It is truly the most epic boss fight Blizz has put out to date.

Wrath Raiding > TBC Raiding > Vanilla Raiding

[Blinke]

But what if I enjoy the second one EVEN MORE!?

Metaphors involving human thoughts and feelings probably aren't the best metaphors :P

Okay, eat another.

I mean, seriously, go down a fucking bag of hershey kisses and then another, and then another.

Yeah, my second raid was a blast, my 62nd was 'meh'

That's the point, I didn't say that the results would be immediate, I said the 'latter' not the former :P

And that is a serious example as well xD

[McFrotton]

Am I the only one to notice that when we were starting wotlk and finishing with BC everyone was complaining about BC being the worst shit lol

Now everyoneshits on wotlk head and praise cata like a new religion, when we willbe 1 year in cata everyone will say Cata is shit and that wotlk was SO HUGE and uber epic best xpac and blablabla lol mark my words lol it will happen and you all know it will.

[Dr Morako]

BC raids > no raiding > LK raids > Vanilla

[Fabrio]

everyone will say Cata is shit and that wotlk was SO HUGE and uber epic best xpac and blablabla lol mark my words lol it will happen and you all know it will.

Na im pretty sure no one will be saying that. If anything if someone said that about WOTLK in a years time someone will just troll them by saying they only liked WOTLK because it was so easy mode.

[Deleted]

Am I the only one to notice that when we were starting wotlk and finishing with BC everyone was complaining about BC being the worst shit lol

Now everyoneshits on wotlk head and praise cata like a new religion, when we willbe 1 year in cata everyone will say Cata is shit and that wotlk was SO HUGE and uber epic best xpac and blablabla lol mark my words lol it will happen and you all know it will.

Don't forget the most important part:
The ones whining will STILL BE PLAYING for some unknown reason.

[Puffman]

Yes, those of us not being loudmouths hating on this expansion are just sitting back laughing at everybody with their blinders on.

Most of you people must have terribly selective memory.

[Dragonshardz]

Not this shit again.

I got banned for the comment once.

On topic: Maybe the OP compares epicness of the Kil'Jaeden fight in "not many people have seen it in reality, that's why it's so epic" fashion.

Epic raiding for me was Black Temple... Hyjal... The sheer amount of trash and the terrain and, of course, the bosses were truly epic.

Fun raiding for me was Zul'Aman, Naxx (wotlk) and pretty much every WOTLK raid. Easy and accessible. Sure, not as varied and challenging as TBC raiding was but it was fun and accessible... and that's all that I need in a raid these days

[Värgen]

Raiding was more epic at 60 because the game was new.

In my guild we have a mage who started playing 4 months ago. He was in for our first LK25 kill (months late, casual guild, etc etc etc) and he was VERY excited about it. As excited as I was when I first killed Ragnaros. He yelled on vent while we were cheering about our kill, it was obviously his first big fish.

Believe me, everything's epic when it's shiny and pristine. Us who have played the game since the start won't find anything from now really epic when compared to Vanilla because we already know the ins and outs of this game.

This. Agree to the fullest. I remember the first time I came to Loch Modan, oh the epicness! Honestly, 60 was just a major grind in any aspect of the game. BC improved gameplay alot, and so did WotLK.

You can argue that WotLK hands out gear to easily to anyone, but has the raiding aspect of the game improved? Hell yes. If you think no, you are probably just butthurt in some way.

[bahumut5]

Moved to the PvE forums.

[Wragnorok]

It's part of the nature of the genre. In a stat-centered RPG environment, with a combat system of fairly limited variety, there will always be several constantly recurring elements to every fight, as far as individual execution is concerned. The reason why the end-game is primarily guild oriented is because, given the nature of the game design, it's really only possible to create variety for players at the group level.

Classic raiding had its awesome moments. It also had a lot of moments that sucked. There were only a few fights that were truly challenging by design, while many were challenging because they were buggy. Talent trees were not as slick as they are now, not by any means, and a lot of people in your raid of 20/40 probably had a hard time making sense of it all.

Burning Crusade raiding had its awesome moments, too, but there were also some real snoozers. Taken as a whole, I personally enjoyed TBC raiding the most, but...

Wrath raiding has, from a design standpoint, the monopoly on 'most epic fights'. Ulduar was chock full of challenges, and I have no problem admitting that I'm having a damn hard time coming up with a group of 25 people I have raided with that I believe could take down Arthas on Heroic. The only problem is that, as I've said, some elements of your individual role will be reprised constantly in every single raid, because there are pretty tight limits on what an individual player character is capable of doing. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, it's part of what makes the game able to function at all, but if you're looking for the same kind of constantly changing experience that a high-powered action/adventure game offers the clever player, you're playing the wrong game.

Really, though...why would you play an RPG if you couldn't accept the limits of the genre's mainstream?