ICC % buff a good Idea?

[Halicia]

I'd like to see this nerf mechanic reused in the future.

Everyone always complains about raids being 'too easy', even the hardmodes that they still havent cleared...

So why not push the raids out the door with normal mode being mathematically "difficult" to fully clear, and hardmodes theoretically impossible...
So then we could have a few weeks of true 'progression' while the buff/debuffs slowly bring the raid back to a more realistically feasible range, and then continue buffing it once or twice while the next content patch is out, but still on 'hardmode' til the buffs start stacking.

Those that dont like the grind/wipe of progression raiding can farm the hell out of the ezmode last raid, but those that demand a challenge can bash their heads against the wall of the bleeding edge current content and practice mechanics while the numbers get a little better.

[Doctor Professor]

Personally, I really love when you struggle on bosses, that feeling you get when you really push your character to your limits, where you toy around with specs, spreadsheets and overthink strategies. That's why I was dissapointed with the buff hitting so early, and ever more dissapointed learning it also affected the HC modes.

And no, I haven't got 12/12 hc, but that's not relevant.

It is very relevant. I was talking about the LK fight. All the other fights can be done and we've done them without the buff. The jump from HC Professor to HC LK in terms of difficulty is like jumping from Karazhan to Illidan.

It's fine if you like "struggling" and "pushing" your character to beat fights, but trust me if you do all that, you max out your performance and you still bash your head agaisnt the wall it just stops being fun. And you even lose the will to try because for 20 mins you just sit and sweat waiting for that one first fuckup that will cost you the attempt.

So yea, if you don't raid LK, feel free to disable the buff. I guarantee you can kill any boss without it.

[Yanci]

I think the ICC buff is a great idea, just not that its gonna be 30%.

[Saliz]

The jump from 11/12 to 12/12 is even beyond what the jump from saaaay...Lurker to LV or Voidreaver to KT was.

Even Paragon need the 5% buff - and ofc ppl screamed that was due to unfair tuning from the start by Blizzard. No idea if Blizzard has some super team that tested LK 25 without buff and succeeded or if Blizz tuned it by running it through a simulator.

Fact is: Only Paragon killed him with 5%. then about 5 guilds with the 10% buff...another 45 with the 15% buff and now in the 4 days of the 20% buff another 45 already. To me..even those doing it with the 20% buff are barely 90 guilds so far...which shos that this fight is so retardedly hard, that even the majority of the top 100 guilds needs the buff.

I still like this idea...

Paragon's accomplishment killing it with 5% is tremendous. I can see them pulling off a kill with the buff removed once they are kited in BiS gear in almost each slot. The different between 5% and 20% is insane and maybe they should stop here instead of adding 10% more.

The buff so far made everything else but LK trivial and a yawnfest and even LK himself became quite the different encounter than it was 1 month ago. 30% will be pretty ridiculous.

[Deleted]

To me, PvE isnt competitive but co-operative game, where you and your group have your own pace, your own achievement. Be pround of what you 've achieved, of what you spent your effort on, rather than comparing it to the top guild and "kill off the sense of accomplishment" yourself.



Also, as everyone said so: why didnt you and your guild turn off the buff when you find out it affected hardmode? Its not like Blizz didnt give you choice :\

It's a cooperative game, but it's also fun to compete, but again that's not the point. I dislike the feeling of getting helped to such an extent it trivializes the game. Like auto-aiming in a FPS or pressing the Hint-button during a session of a strategy/puzzle game. Having very difficult encounters in the game will force people to become better players, if they want to see/clear the content that is. This buff essentially means you don't have to get better, you just have to wait.

And the fact that LK is a crazy encounter (I love it, but it) makes people who never really bothered to learn how to maximize your toon shit their pants and stop caring about going 12/12.

[Talisin]

I'm all for the buff in ICC. IMO it's better then straight nerfing everything.

And there's people who are complaining about it going up to 30%. All I can ask is, why?
Its been said before that you can simply turn off the buff. Or you can use it to get your drakes so you have a sweet sweet mount come Cata.

Chances are my guild won't be progressing come the 30% buff because we will have all of 10 man HM down. So we will either have our drakes and be prepping for Cata or using the buff to get us some sweet achievements.

I'm glad it's going so high so that the masses can at least see the fight. I'd hate to spend years of my life developing something and then only have say 5% of my target audience able to see everything. It would feel like a waste.

Either way it's a good chance to cool down from raiding and prepping for Cata. Cheers all!

[Shatteredstar]

I myself don't see why people fuss about the % buff.

Is other people seeing the content that much a painful thing for others? Do you people who claim that the buff is "bad" for helping you rage at the fact groups using the buff (that you surely turn off right?) get past you because they use it?

As someone else said, other people need to stop worrying about others. Play the game how you enjoy it with the tools given.

Want to grind it out without the % buff, do so. If that makes you happy then be freaking happy you are doing that, don't whine about how someone else used the buff because guess what, end of the day you both got your enjoyment out of the game.

[Admuntour]

Yes and no.
The buff should have been added to easy mode 10 and 25 as usual. But left the hard modes alone. HM is supposed to be a show of skill and dedication, adding the buff to it is just counter-intuitive.

[Ma_shed]

Blizzard just wants as many people to experience the content as possible. They spent years making ICC, and have learned from past content (re: Vanilla Naxx and Sunwell) that spending so much time on something only to have a small % of the playerbase actually experience their hard work is not rewarding at all, for them.

Ramping up to 30% is pretty absurd, and I would've hoped that Cataclysm came out shortly after it reached 30.

[rico99913]

not sure if it's a good idea or not but we took a group of mostly new 80's in last night. 1 wipe on fester because someone was afk and we didn't know it. 2nd attempt 2 dps died about 30 seconds into the fight and we were still able to kill him with 10 seconds to spare. then we 9 manned rotface. we are all experienced but 7 of 10 people were not much more then emblem of triumph/heroic gear

[Shatteredstar]

Blizzard just wants as many people to experience the content as possible. They spent years making ICC, and have learned from past content (re: Vanilla Naxx and Sunwell) that spending so much time on something only to have a small % of the playerbase actually experience their hard work is not rewarding at all, for them.

Ramping up to 30% is pretty absurd, and I would've hoped that Cataclysm came out shortly after it reached 30.

Sort of defeat the purpose of people seeing it if they popped expansion right after they made it the most accessable.

Be like having a sale at the run down old store just as the new store with more selection opens next door. Ya you'll still get some people, but the majority aren't gonna care cause they can get more from the other place.

[Ma_shed]

Sort of defeat the purpose of people seeing it if they popped expansion right after they made it the most accessable.

Be like having a sale at the run down old store just as the new store with more selection opens next door. Ya you'll still get some people, but the majority aren't gonna care cause they can get more from the other place.

Considering more people have experienced ICC as of now than any other finale instance (people pug it, you know?) I would say that the buff is already doing its job, and the 30% really doesn't have to exist for that long... just long enough for people to pug the LK.

[Deleted]

That means in theory, everybody just sits there and wait - but in reality people play every week and try their best week after week.

I agree with what you say, but this part is not true for my guild, and it's the reason to why I dislike the buff. Or, how fast the buff goes up.

[Snoop101]

I don't know what to think. When you down a boss now after the buffs it doesn't feel very rewarding. I couldn't care less if bad players are getting further..

[Zoros]

I don't like it, players should progress in PvE, not geting free access. But I have to admit that is a better idea than rewarding player with epics for killing Toravon, do trivial heroics, or weekly quests that requieres to kill an outdated boss.

[feroid]

It needs to increase run speed by 5/10/15/20/25/30% IMO. Being slow at movement is what all the bads die to. "wat? when did a vile gas spawn on me?" "wat? im supposed to run from shock vortex?" "wat? where did that defile come from?"


The only thing that would help more would be to give them a buff similar to ardent defender: "Any attack that would otherwise kill you will now return you to 30% health"

[Melonberry]

They were going to nerf the instance 30% before cata, now they don't have to since it nerfed itself over time.

Genius I say.

[soupsoup]

The system is good i guess, it does allow more people through the content, i jsut which each increment had been a bit slower, a few mroe weeks between, am finding that my guld has been trying to progress but due to limited attempts/limited time etc it feels liek we are getting outpaced by the zone buff, then of course after having worked really hard for a week or two and gettin really close the buff increases you go in and one shot, and instead of feeling like a job well done it feels like the rward of having got aother step further has been belittled.

[taishar68]

I respect the opinion that it trivializes the content, because it does. Our guild decided fun>pride, and used the buff, and I agree, guilds that don't use it should get an achievement.

I like it for a lot of reasons; it allows cutting-edge guilds to really prove their worth; my KS achievement, when it comes, will mean less than the guilds who cleared him with 0, and they will always have that to hang on to. It also allows guilds that need help finishing off bosses to move through stuff quicker.

While there is something to be said for not building strong teeth by eating oatmeal, if more guilds stay together due to faster progression, then perhaps more guilds can eventually grow to progress through buffless content as well...although there will certainly be guilds who crumble when they can't progress without nerfs and/or overgearing.