PuGs and LK

[wiggletard]

I pug 25 everyweek, we do hardmodes because some people have 25 Kingslayer, therefore we never have time to put in LK attempts. Otherwise Id say we would have LK by now

[Mogrutana]

Eh, I can agree except for the fact that your definition of PuG is extremely strict and according to your guidelines PuGs dont even exist in WoW. So of course, something that doesn't exist can't accomplish much.

[Deleted]

There was topic about 2 weeks ago, where some guys in PUg downed LK ???

[Darklyer]

Well stop QQ guys on my server a pug downed the lk 25 and it was a pug.

[Deleted]

I can see your point, but how would you define groups like those runs that down 11/12+ and heroic modes you mentioned if they're not PuGs?

[Bossmonkey]

My pugs always did 10/12, I've taken people who had no idea how to do PP (or had even killed marrowgar) into ICC and cleared 10 bosses in 3 hours.

If my weekly pug had more time we'd go kill LK on the next day, but I can never get people to come back

[Asgard]

So you define a collection of players with good enough gear to accomplish the objective (in this case kill LK 25man) not as a PUG ?

So basically, you want LK to be killable in greens and no vent ? That's what you call a PUG ? Yeah right.

[Kpoof]

Eh, what, I have pugged LK10 man normal once without vent, every single person picked up from trade channel. So please, don't speak out of your ass like you have played on every single realm there is, you don't know everything and you never will.

And your TLDR whatever, no LK 10 man is NOT a hard fight. Yogg+0 was harder in BiS gear back then, LK10 man with 251 gear is NOT hard. The only "hard" part is the defiles, and when the defiles are sorted out, there is NOTHING that makes it harder.

[Zeilek]

The general "PuG", the kind everyone thinks of when they hear that word No
But there are some made of skilled players that pug
That could do it
and probably have on 10

[Reluctant]

I am guildless and i pug every week with random ppl from trade and doing 11/12 isnt hard whenn u explain tactics and people are willing to follow said strategies

Pugs arent anny less thenn guild runs if the raidleader does a good job u can achiev yust as much

[Zeerus]

Hmm... My server is pretty bad, but there has been a successful LK 10m pug.
Some of the people that were in it are in a guild, but it's a PVP guild. (some = 3)
I think that once the buff hits 30%, we might see more of these.

[scism]

I pug 25 everyweek, we do hardmodes because some people have 25 Kingslayer, therefore we never have time to put in LK attempts. Otherwise Id say we would have LK by now

If its a regular run every week then its not a PUG. PUG=Pick up group=randoms each time

in b4 flame!!!!

Yeah i can handle it

Eh, I can agree except for the fact that your definition of PuG is extremely strict and according to your guidelines PuGs dont even exist in WoW. So of course, something that doesn't exist can't accomplish much.

OK. Let me clarify.... You can think of it 2 ways - either you have "Guild runs" - organised in every way or "Others" - people who are not in a guild. Now that other category used to be pretty much just random people in trade who arent in a guild for some reason wanted to see content. Now it also includes raids just as organised as guild raids but the only difference is people are not in the same guild - they could be alts from known guilds joining together, perhaps with 1 random (more likely someone they know or have grouped with before), or things organised on realm forums (eg GDKP runs).

There is a persistent theme that "PUGs are bad" (yes, they generally are as they lack organisation, communication and co-ordination) but the latter 2 above do not fall in this category.

This then leads to the assertion that "content is easy" and "anyone can kill LK" - eg i've seen people flamed for "only" having done LK10...... This is what i'm against - it is an achivement to do this. No one outside the absolute best of the best will walk in and do that fight first time without any preperation. No chance. Some may get it in 10 attempts if they are good, other may never do it (lots probably).

However, this will all change (i hope) in cata with the incentives to be in a guild (guild exp etc). Then you can all just bitch and flame at guild who have "only" done normal mode of the last tier of raiding.....

[Buckwald]

Actually PUG = Pick up Group. It can be a group of friends who are all on at the same time, people from the trade/gen channels, even the random people you are grouped with in the LFD. Like a Pick up game of basket ball that you randomly play at the gym/park.

The thought of a "PUG" downing the LK on 10 or 25 is not hard to believe at all.

[Ormula]

3 guildies and 7 randoms blaze through and get 12/12 in 3 hours. Is that a pug?

[Deleted]

The ops definition of pug and non pug is not matching the standard definition - thats why he is complaining about it.

[Upsimus]

Eh, I can agree except for the fact that your definition of PuG is extremely strict and according to your guidelines PuGs dont even exist in WoW. So of course, something that doesn't exist can't accomplish much.

Of course they exist, what the fuck are you talking about?

[Mojojojo]

On my server, 3 PuGs have now killed LK25 normal; these PuGs consist of a few alts from one guild(max of about 5) and the rest are random people picked up in trade chat.

These people picked up in trade chat joined the PuG's during ToC25, going on to get 4/5 ToGC(with one of them getting 15%-20% wipes on Anub'Arak HC), these PuGs then continued in to ICC25.

Because there are some Alts in the group, a few of these Alts were bought into their guilds LK25 kills so they could unlock HC bosses in the PuG runs. These PuGs now run with about 18-20 of the same people each week and 5-7 differen't people each week.

In the space of 3-4Hrs the best of the Pugs clears 9 Heroic bosses(not Putricide/Sindragosa/Deathwhisper) and kill LK on normal. The other two get about 6-7 down on Heroic and kill LK in the same time frame.

So yeh, just because these people have been raiding together(mostly) for awhile, they all did start out as complete PuGs and have killed things together. A lot of the people in the run don't have main raiding guilds and only do these runs in their spare time.

[scism]

Eh, what, I have pugged LK10 man normal once without vent, every single person picked up from trade channel. So please, don't speak out of your ass like you have played on every single realm there is, you don't know everything and you never will.

And your TLDR whatever, no LK 10 man is NOT a hard fight. Yogg+0 was harder in BiS gear back then, LK10 man with 251 gear is NOT hard. The only "hard" part is the defiles, and when the defiles are sorted out, there is NOTHING that makes it harder.

So you define a collection of players with good enough gear to accomplish the objective (in this case kill LK 25man) not as a PUG ?

So basically, you want LK to be killable in greens and no vent ? That's what you call a PUG ? Yeah right.

1) OK. So LK fight with no vent and complete randoms in 251 gear who've never done the fight before - you saying you've done that? So the healer who'd never seen exactly how fast defile takes health down, or the hunter who thinks he's got 1/2 second before he has to tranq aren't going to cause a wipe? With an organised group (guild or otherwise) you can shout over vent; you can very clearly get across what to do and when, which is impossible without that level of organisation.

2) Wow.. some people just want to pick a fight.... That was exactly the OPPOSITE of my point... People in greens and no vent CANNOT and WILL NEVER be able to kill LK. People are saying (/heavily implying) they are and i'm countering that

Alot of people seem to be misunderstanding my point - i'm countering the argument that WoLK is "casual friendly" because "PUGs can do LK" (therefore anyone can do LK, including "I'm a waider" Donald, if they are carried). Now unless with the 20% or 30% buff and massive overgearing health pools are so large that the OT can take a couple of seconds of beating with an enraged add, or tanks can afford to not switch in P2, and everyone can be lax on defiles and valkyr, its still going to be a challenge.

I'm not denying that non-guild groups can down LK. However i am saying that they need to be very organised to be able to do this and "scrubs" "noobs" and "tards" cannot and will never do LK. Dont belittle people who have "only done LK10....scrub"

[YouMadMan]

Thanks everyone for confirming to me i finished muru pre nerf as a pug. (5 of us werent part of the guild). TBC easy fucking mode. But honesly guild are just a big pick up group anyway.

[Mogrutana]

People in greens and no vent CANNOT and WILL NEVER be able to kill LK. People are saying (/heavily implying) they are and i'm countering that

Because using vent doesn't transform a PuG into a non PuG, it just makes it a more organized PuG. We're not saying people in greens and no vent will kill LK, we're saying that that's not the only definition of a PuG.

I'm not denying that non-guild groups can down LK. However i am saying that they need to be very organised to be able to do this and "scrubs" "noobs" and "tards" cannot and will never do LK.

Then say THAT. Scrubs noobs and tards are not the only ones who PuG....