Highend Tanks - Do you use FC?

[Executia]

Hi there guys ,

I was just asking myself if it's more profitable to use FC over Stoneskin as a fairly high-geared tank ( 264+ )
Especially with the ICC Buff doubledipping ( more total HP and bonus on heals ) the FC Heal.

Stoneskin :

2% Stam ( around 70-80 stam full buffed )
25 Defense

FC :

Frequent 3% Heal
Almost 100% uptime on 15% Str ( results in extra threat + parry )


What do you think about it? Do you know highend tanks prefering FC?

[Sheriden]

Im all about Stoneskin since some of the gear we have now no longer has Defense its kinda needed.

Plus lets think here, 3% OVERhealing vs 2% more Stam.... hmmm...

[schippie]

No dk tank but warrior but okay the heal from fallen crusader is only 3 % and those types of heals just like the heal from bryntoll are almost/always overheals cause you have healers for that. Dunno if you have aggro probs then that could be an option on taking FC.
Dunno how much parry you get from this so not gonna comment on it. But EH is probably more important then parry atm.

For the stoneskin the defense it gives is worth almost nothing most tanks are way over the defense cap cause there is more than enougth on 264 gear. But the increase to stamina (70-80 = 700-800 health min. (dunno if talents stack with that ) ) is so far as i can see better since EH is almost / the most important thing at this moment.

All these things are said from a warriors prespective dunno how DK's see this.

[DerSenf]

I highly doubt FC can surpass SSG.

15% Str will probably not even close to 1% parry, since all tankgear has Strengh already ans Forceful Deflection suffers high diminishing returns in high end gear.
Also, threa is really no issue in raids. The only problem DKs had with threat was in taunt-swapping fights (like Saurfang, Fester..) was to land a Rune Strike after your taunt to prevent the other tank to get aggro again. Now we have Icy Touch aka LolAggroBlast for that.
3% is worthless, really. If you are a BloodTank, just look at your Recount after a Bossfight and see the Overhealing of your Death Strike. It should be around 80-90%. The current way tankhealing is, a selfhealing tank hardly gives the healer any favor.

2% Stamina and 3% Avoid raise the survivability of the tank, with is the only thing (asaid from not standing in fires) a tank should care.

[Valquirie]

NB: I am not an "elite raider"; have only made it as far as Deathbringer Saurfang on 10-Normal. Also, I have not been able to play since March 2010.

Now, I find Sattori's (at TankSpot) entire guide very useful, but the relevant section is quoted below:

The Death Knight runes that will be most significant to a Death Knight tank are as follows:

* Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle (SSG) = this Rune will increase your Defense skill by 25 and grant 2% more Stamina. The 1-hand version (Nerubian Carapace) will grant 13 Defense skill and 1% additional Stamina to each weapon it is placed on.
* Rune of Swordshattering (SS) = this Rune will increase your Parry chance by 4%. The 1-hand version (Swordbreaking) will grant 2% Parry chance on each weapon. This Parry chance will not be affected by, or contribute to the diminishing returns on Parry rating. These Runes also grant a non-stacking 50% reduction in the duration of Disarm effects, but these are currently non-existent in raids, and nearly so in 5-mans.
* Rune of Spellshattering = this Rune will reduce all magic damage taken by 4%. The 1-hand version reduces magic damage taken by 2% per weapon. Both versions reduce silence durations by 50%, again non-stacking.
* Rune of the Fallen Crusdaer = this Rune will sometimes heal the Death Knight for 3% of her total health and grant 15% bonus Strength for 15 seconds.
. . .
Rune of the Fallen Crusader is primarily a DPS Rune. That said, the heal can be particularly powerful for a Blood tank, or any tank who has a generous amount of health, and the increase in Strength also grants some small avoidance in addition to the powerful threat buff. I do not recommend this over the net value of the other runes, but it may sometimes be worth carrying for threat.

I have never seen a significant decrease in survivability while using Rune of the Fallen Crusader, instead of Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle. I use RotSG when I am more concerned, mainly, about my health pool, or even about survivability. RotFC is more useful for a steady healing, and near-permanent 15% more Strength.

Also, RotFC is more useful for Blood tanks (or tanks with high health pools), as in the emboldened and underlined quoted text, above.

PS: I do not disagree that RotFC can cause over-healing, but I have never looked at my charts. So, I cannot be sure about the numbers.

[Zao]

For the stoneskin the defense it gives is worth almost nothing most tanks are way over the defense cap cause there is more than enougth on 264 gear. But the increase to stamina (70-80 = 700-800 health min. (dunno if talents stack with that ) ) is so far as i can see better since EH is almost / the most important thing at this moment.

This statement is wrong. Defense over 540 is still useful. It provides miss/dodge and parry (and block for you as a warrior) above the cap. And since the SSG rune is not on DR it provides you with exactly 3% avoidance and 2% stamina.

Though you're correct when saying that SSG>FC.
Compare the values of the Runes as if you would choose a piece of gear:
What would you take on a weapon? ~300 AP and <1% avoidance (assuming 100% uptime)
or 920 HP + 3% avoidance? (taking unbuffed values for my tank here)

[Gravion]

I use RotFC in heroics, simply because I already have plenty of stamina and avoidance. I also use Sigil of Virulence. I keep threat consistently, don't take very much damage, and I'm still defense capped. And I'm usually 1st in damage done. See my armory, I'm not really that geared.

[Deleted]

SSG is invaluable when you start getting BiS gear. I find myself on about 560 defence WITH SSG, not to mention SSG gives 1% parry (+dodge/miss) which pretty much equals to the parry you get from FC. (and you should never ever have aggro problems after the IT buff).

[Serp]

And since the SSG rune is not on DR it provides you with exactly 3% avoidance and 2% stamina.

Unless this has changed, this statement is incorrect. Swordshattering doesn't suffer from DR as it gives a flat 2% parry increase. SSG however gives 25 defense, meaning that the amount of dodge/parry/miss/black you get from it depends on how much of those stats you already got.

[Deleted]

Unless this has changed, this statement is incorrect. Swordshattering doesn't suffer from DR as it gives a flat 2% parry increase. SSG however gives 25 defense, meaning that the amount of dodge/parry/miss/black you get from it depends on how much of those stats you already got.

Incorrect, Defence doesn't suffer from DR (atleast not Defence Skill, rating might) when I wear my weapon I have 6.36% , when I take off my weapon (SSG) I have 5.36%

[Zao]

Unless this has changed, this statement is incorrect. Swordshattering doesn't suffer from DR as it gives a flat 2% parry increase. SSG however gives 25 defense, meaning that the amount of dodge/parry/miss/black you get from it depends on how much of those stats you already got.

Incorrect, every (defensive) rating suffers from DR. Direct stats however do not. This has long been established.

[schippie]

This statement is wrong. Defense over 540 is still useful. It provides miss/dodge and parry (and block for you as a warrior) above the cap. And since the SSG rune is not on DR it provides you with exactly 3% avoidance and 2% stamina.

Didnt say defense is not important. Only thinking 25 is not that much if you see the amounts of def rating on gear. And also keep in mind avoidance is good tho its not as mandatory as it was back in TBC. Still i say the Stoneskin is better purely cause it provides stam. And lack of threat with icc gear should not really be a problem except if you use the wrong spells xd.

[Mesovr]

Its not 25 def rating its 25 deff skill huge difference