Just wondering... What about avenging wrath?

[Druco]

The other day i was thinking about all the changes that have been made towards balancing the use of Avenging Wrath and Divine Shield.

From causing forbereance to the actual system.

Was wondering, was it so difficult to set it as "Can´t be used while Divine Shield is activated" or something similar?

What do you guys think?

[Zarleck]

I think they wanted it to be a choice, so people didn't just go
/cancelaura Avenging Wrath
/cast Divine Shield

(or the other way around)
No?

[Druco]

Dont see whats wrong with that. it makes you choose between one or the other, and that was their purpose. They wanted us to not use them at the same time. Though we've ended up being unable to use them for far too many seconds.

At least its better than when it caused forbereance :

[leelad]

I'd ditch Divine Shield for an Avenging Wrath that boosts run speed and damage by 20%

[Rayzan]

They made it so you had to make a wise desicion before using wings. It's very similiar to a lot of changes to other classes. Blizz is trying to make you think a little bit. AW is viable in all specs. More healing as holy, quick threat as tank, and more dmg as ret but it comes with a cost. Healers must think that if they want to blow wings with their DP to reduce the healin debuff they won't have a bubble to use for 30 seconds so you kind of have to know the fight and realize when the most raid dmg is about to happen. Same with ret and prot (50% less dmg bubble, the name slips my mind). Honestly the 30 seconds inbetween is a pretty good balance. A lot better than forbearance.

[manageri]

I think they wanted it to be a choice, so people didn't just go
/cancelaura Avenging Wrath
/cast Divine Shield

(or the other way around)
No?

Yea kinda like rogues needa choose between adrenaline rush and evasion.

lolwait no that's just paladins.

It's a relic of the TO THE GROUND era when they couldn't hotifx us fast enough with whatever they could come up with, and they haven't bothered to remove it since even though it's completely fucking needless now to not let us cast them at the same time when bubble reduces all damage done by half.

[Rlyskilled]

[...] when bubble reduces all damage done by half.

Please link me the ability of another class that makes them immune to all schools of damage but able to still allows them to cast spells, heal, and attack normally (aside from a 50% decrease in damage done). Of course you need penalties to be able to do this. We have a mobile immunity that almost defines the Paladin class and when used right, it's very strong.

It reduces your damage, it comes with Forbearance, it has a 30 second rule with wings, and it can be dispelled. So what? I've saved my own character's life and the lives of others with my bubble many times.

Blah blah, other classes don't have X penalty for X ability. Paladins aren't other classes. For christ's sake, people whine about their class not having what another class has just to turn around and whine more about class homogenization. Get a grip.

[Longview]

Yea kinda like rogues needa choose between adrenaline rush and evasion.

lolwait no that's just paladins.

Let me guess. You've never actually played a rogue.

Evasion is a PvP-oriented ability. Adrenaline Rush is a talent in the Combat-tree that's not at all very viable for PvP, and therefor is a PvE-oriented ability.

Comparing Evasion to Divine shield makes you look ignorant. Just sayin'.

[Piscesthepally]

Theres really nothing wrong with the way it is currently setup. Proper use/timing of Avenging Wrath are key and it actually requires you to have some level of skill in deciding when to best use it.

[Deleted]

Let me guess. You've never actually played a rogue.

Evasion is a PvP-oriented ability. Adrenaline Rush is a talent in the Combat-tree that's not at all very viable for PvP, and therefor is a PvE-oriented ability.

Comparing Evasion to Divine shield makes you look ignorant. Just sayin'.

PvE side:
Evasion + CoS = you don't die from magical damage (most of the time), and you avoid physical direct attacks.

PvP side:
Did you ever tried to kill a rogue who is doing Evasion + CoS ? Yup, it's nearly impossible, moreover, they can also Cold Blood or Vanish right after or during using it

For paladins ? Oh you used AW ? Too bad you can't bubble to take off Blood debuff on Saurfang, you can't bubble on Lanathel, you can't bubble on Rotface (or Festergut, the one that uses spores).

Seewutididthar ?

[Rlyskilled]

For paladins ? Oh you used AW ? Too bad you can't bubble to take off Blood debuff on Saurfang, you can't bubble on Lanathel, you can't bubble on Rotface (or Festergut, the one that uses spores).

Seewutididthar ?

What?

While I suppose it's good to delay his first mark as well as possible (after 20% in damage/healing/absorption buffs it isn't so mandatory anymore), you have just as much chance to grab the first or second Boiling Blood than you do of getting a mark and Divine Shield is best saved for a frenzied Mark of the Fallen Champion, don't you think?
Unfortunately rogues can't evasion marks and they can't Sacred Shield Boiling Blood.

You can bubble on Festergut, if for some reason you didn't get inoculated 3 times you might as well ensure you can pop Divine Protection to half the Pungent Blight damage or just flat out bubble if you don't think you'll live through half damage. Better to do that and perhaps delay wings than be an idiot and die.
Rogues can Feint, but they can't cloak Pungent Blight.

On Blood Queen? Another instance of being aware of when you can and will pop wings in order to bubble in a sticky situation. This is the case for most encounters.
Rogues can cloak Blood Queen's spell damage. And they're pretty good on the cc if you're terrible and your raid mates get mind controlled I guess.

You know when damage is coming, you know (give or take) how long the fight is going to be barring unforeseen circumstances. Dying because you can't bubble due to popping Avenging Wrath is pretty stupid.

[Nikoll]

Let me guess. You've never actually played a rogue.

Evasion is a PvP-oriented ability. Adrenaline Rush is a talent in the Combat-tree that's not at all very viable for PvP, and therefor is a PvE-oriented ability.

Comparing Evasion to Divine shield makes you look ignorant. Just sayin'.

The above quote is you missing the point.


Yes it is silly we have a cd on our cd before we can use another cd. In typical blizz fasion they bandaged a problem they won't ever fix. Even after the upcoming bubble nerf it won't het fixed.

[Sidonis]

PvE side:
Evasion + CoS = you don't die from magical damage (most of the time), and you avoid physical direct attacks.

PvP side:
Did you ever tried to kill a rogue who is doing Evasion + CoS ? Yup, it's nearly impossible, moreover, they can also Cold Blood or Vanish right after or during using it

For paladins ? Oh you used AW ? Too bad you can't bubble to take off Blood debuff on Saurfang, you can't bubble on Lanathel, you can't bubble on Rotface (or Festergut, the one that uses spores).

Seewutididthar ?

Saurfang...Mark of Blood cannot be removed and persists through death, and will continue ticking if you're battle rezzed. Unless you meant his Blood Boil? Please be specific, to avoid being flamed as an idiot. And if you're ret or prot you're not even getting Blood Boil cast on you anyways because you're in melee range and he casts Blood Boil at ranged targets first and foremost.

BQL...if you're not paying attention to the DBM/BigWigs timers and you popped wings too close to your turn to Bubble+DS through a shadowbolt whirl then you're an idiot, if you need it to break the fear it better be on 10-man with no Shamans in the raid or a Priest to FW himself then Mass Dispel.

Rotface...any reason you need to bubble here is because you're an idiot. You either a) standing in slime spray, b) aren't dispelling yourself of injection to take the slime to the kite tank (the slime deals less damage attacking you than the disease does ticking, especially on Heroic), c) aren't moving at all or at the incorrect time when a slime explodes, d) standing in a flooded area because you have no situational awareness in FPS mode and don't know how to Freedom yourself and gtfo out of it.

Festergut...If you're not getting all 3 spores without it being an achievement attempt, then either a) the people getting spores are morons, b) you're a moron and didn't get next to one, and furthermore c) you're not Holy or not using Ret Spec B to Aura Mastery + Shadow Resistance Aura the Pungent Blight. And before you mock Ret Spec B, there are several fights in ICC where having another Aura Mastery available for boosting a resist Aura is more beneficial than DS, such as Sindragosa and LK.

Any other complaints that should have been easily solved by knowing your class?

[Styria]

the Combat-tree that's not at all very viable for PvP

lolwut

[Rifee]

lolwut

ITT: pve paladins pretending to have a clue about pvp, and not relising the design of AW and DS is INTENDED.

Every class has downsides designed with the class mechanics, strenghts and weaknesses in mind.


Why is it warriors have to switch stance and lose rage to perform a pummel while rogues can just press the button immediately?
Why do hunters have a deadzone while the other ranged doesn't?
Why can't mages dmg when iceblokced while paladins can through divene shield etc etc etc.

Personally I know the answers to all of these, because I know what strenghts and weaknesses those classes have...

[Stoutfist]

I wouldn't have any problem with it if avenging wrath wasn't dispellable.

[Drual]

Yo dawg i heard you leik Cd's, so i put a Cd on yo Cd so you can wait while wait.

[gobtol]

Bubble and Avenging Wrath together was a problem when rets were doing full damage with their special attacks through Divine Shield. You could pop wings and bubble and kill about any dps class with ease. Now that all damage is reduced by 50% through bubble, the 30 sec shared CD really isn't needed.

[Borigrad]

I wouldn't have any problem with it if avenging wrath wasn't dispellable.

i wouldn't have a problem with it if burst damage wasn't so dismal is pvp, since being able to bubble and AV in pve doesn't matter.

[Styria]

Why do hunters have a deadzone while the other ranged doesn't?

while i agree with a portion of your post, i'd just like to point out that hunters do not have a dead zone anymore.

also, i know how to pvp as ret... i do so often. I'm just hoping that comment wasnt directed at me (i'm pretty sure it wasnt)