Is Shadow Step viable ?

[Belian]

Hi guys, I am making a Rogue and I will level him as Combat because I know is the best build for leveling, however I really like Subtlety and Shadow Step because that is how I picture Rogues been sneaky, ambushing, kinda like a ninja, but anyways I know in this game you can't really spec because it looks awesome, for example my main is a Mage and I love Frost but I know Frost is not viable for PvE, so as much I love Frost I will not spec it for PvE because it will make a fool of myself.

Anyway, I would like to hear some opinions on how good is Shadow Step before I make a fool out of myself and get kick out of a Raid or Arena Team because I got the wrong spec.

On a side note, I have done my homework and I know that the top Rogues in Arena Junkies are Shadow Step, I've also spoke with some Rogues and they've told me that Shadow Step in PvE is not happening, but regardless of this I would like to hear some thoughts.

In advance, I apologize if this thread have been posted already and Thanks a lot for your help.

[Snide]

In Short:
For Pvp, it's the most fun ever. It's got the sustainability and burst for Arena and the utility for BGs.
For Pve, it's under powered. You can get some fair damage, but it just doesn't really compare to Mutilate or Combat.

[Emothianes]

I certainly enjoy shadowstep for pvp on my rogue, but I'd never dare take it into a raid.

In Short:
For Pvp, it's the most fun ever. It's got the sustainability and burst for Arena and the utility for BGs.
For Pve, it's under powered. You can get some fair damage, but it just doesn't really compare to Mutilate or Combat.

QFT

[Suhu]

For PvE, sublety would be hard to balance. If the damage was on par with the other specs, most would choose sublety because of the utility.

For PvP, sublety is in my opinion the spec you can have most fun with, regardless of mutilate being better.

A raid might kick you for being sublety, but considering pugs, I don't think you would. Sublety is supposedly about 2k dps behind in BiS gear, so if you enjoy playing sublety, I'm sure pugs won't mind. An arena team shouldn't kick you for being sublety.

That is my opinion anyway.

[K4ge]

Just a tip on the side: Subtlety is playable in arenas. However: It is vastly more difficult than mutilate and mutilate is still better for, well, everything.
Unless your name is reckful/litre/woundman and you just wanna prove something, I'd stick with mutilate.

[Sneakysnado@Gmail.com]

I certainly enjoy shadowstep for pvp on my rogue, but I'd never dare take it into a raid.

QFT

Hey, it's fun to take in raids! When it first came back I tried it and got top 10 world records for sub rogues! lol =P

[wasniahC]

Kinda.

Its hard to play. Every 20 secs, you have to shadowstep&rupture

You want a slow mainhand, fast dagger offhand, and when shadowdance is ready, swap to dagger mainhand, ambush like hell, swap back after.

Hemo if you are going to cap energy.. else wait for combo points and S&D/Evic

While vanishing on CD for the extra damage after stealth.

Now, if you can play it well, you might beat combat/muti on deathwhisper killing adds, or beat them on valith.


On other fights, you would fall a bit behind.


Also, you'd appear further behind than you really were, because some of the dps that helps it be more competitive comes from TotT having a lower CD, and hemo.

However, you do get the perk of cheat death. Now, its fair to say "mistakes shouldn't happen", but they do, else everyone would have LK 25 HC down by now, wouldn't they?

I'd say its viable for some fights, damagewise, and looks fun, but challenging to max at its full potential compared to combat & muti.

[K4ge]

The only fight were it was even close to the other two specs when I tested was blood prince council

[Sneakysnado@Gmail.com]

The only fight were it was even close to the other two specs when I tested was blood prince council

It is pretty sick for uptime, reducing healing needed, and voiding death when someone fucks up.

[Thesphinx]

Subtlety for PVE is low. It's competitive, but still very low. I wouldn't recommend it for PvE, unless you really want to, or if you're soloing things in PvE.

Subtlety for PvP, on the other hand, is actually considered the best spec for PvP right now, but only by a very small margin. The damage on mages/priests/rogues/warlocks is significantly higher than Mutilate's (about 10%), even with fury warriors/hunters/enhanceshams, and about 20% behind on plate and shield users. One of their advantages against plate, however, is their Waylay Debuff(-20% attack speed), which will balance things out pretty well if you manage to keep it up all the time on heavy plate.

Subt Rogues also have superior utility. Their only downside is that they lack Mutilate's Burst, but they can do about equal the burst as Mut for 8 seconds with Shadowdance. You're talking about 8 seconds of burst per 1 minute, though, so not only does it require pretty good timing, you also can't do it repeatedly, in a BG for example.

When you're not bursting, you're probably doing sustained damage with Rupture, Slice N Dice(Premeditation +SND out of stealth works great), and using Hemo. Hemo is immense damage, but due to the nature of the debuff, it can't be used in a bursty fashion. Backstab does about 25% less damage than Hemo, but it serves as a subpar bursting tool for when you either can't use Shadowdance or simply are saving it for later. Also Backstab's Waylay debuff is immensely important against melee, so keep it up at all times.

Hope this helped.

[K4ge]

Subtlety for PvP, on the other hand, is actually considered the best spec for PvP right now

bull.
mutilate is still better

[Lugo Moll]

Kinda.

Its hard to play. Every 20 secs, you have to shadowstep&rupture

You want a slow mainhand, fast dagger offhand, and when shadowdance is ready, swap to dagger mainhand, ambush like hell, swap back after.

Hemo if you are going to cap energy.. else wait for combo points and S&D/Evic

While vanishing on CD for the extra damage after stealth.

Now, if you can play it well, you might beat combat/muti on deathwhisper killing adds, or beat them on valith.


On other fights, you would fall a bit behind.


Also, you'd appear further behind than you really were, because some of the dps that helps it be more competitive comes from TotT having a lower CD, and hemo.

However, you do get the perk of cheat death. Now, its fair to say "mistakes shouldn't happen", but they do, else everyone would have LK 25 HC down by now, wouldn't they?

I'd say its viable for some fights, damagewise, and looks fun, but challenging to max at its full potential compared to combat & muti.

I'm sorry, but why not use a dagger in the main hand all the time? Didn't they change hemo to support daggers?

[Durand]

I certainly enjoy shadowstep for pvp on my rogue, but I'd never dare take it into a raid.

QFT

same here, but back in BC i got carried through soooo many kara's in pvp gear and shadostep spec but i was rly bad then

[Taalyn]

Subtlety was somewhat useful for heroic Putricide.

[Deleted]

Rupture lasts 24 sec and ShS got a 20 sec cd so there should be no issues.

With Rupture glyph i see 16+4=20sec duration, wth ?

[deyndra]

For pvp sub rogues got less damage output than a rogue with muti spec.
For Pve its a big NO!

[Saikred]

Anyone who kicks anybody for playing ANY spec outside of hardmodes is an idiot.

Its peoples choice, you play what you like.
This changes with hardmodes somewhat, but normally those are guild only and you spec for best DPS or whatever

[Ghostrogue]

dwarf is pretty cool for arena removing bleeds, but the Nelf shadowmeld comes in handy in alot of situations even just if your making your opponant drop their target.

[juhachi]

Subtlety is viable in arena.

[akaTheDude]

I will level him as Combat because I know is the best build for leveling

This is not always true....i hated leveling as combat. It was like playing a warrior wearing leather. I didnt really feel like a rogue to be honest with ya