Enhancement threat issues

[Gray_Matter]

One more suggestion. If the problem is on trash, don't attack the first target that the tank targets. Quite often they will target a mob or two to get the initial agro and then switch to another mob as their main target. Make sure you target their target after the tank has been standing still and fighting for a few seconds. What I do is target the tank and press F a couple of times after the fight has started to make 100% sure that I am on the tanks target.

[Myte342]

Edit: Thought i should add this little story from a few days ago.

~4 days ago when i was lvl 75 i que for a random & get DtK take a look at the group(mage warlock 2 pallys & a priest) and notice our tank is a ret paladin with 9.5k health. After the first trash pack its clear he has no clue about tanking (doesn't even have a shield) so i whisper the healer and say "well, looks like i'm tanking this instance".

We ended up clearing the instance with only 1 death thanks to Spirit wolves & shamanistic rage

So you had 6 people in your dungeon group?

OT:

One more suggestion. If the problem is on trash, don't attack the first target that the tank targets. Quite often they will target a mob or two to get the initial agro and then switch to another mob as their main target. Make sure you target their target after the tank has been standing still and fighting for a few seconds. What I do is target the tank and press F a couple of times after the fight has started to make 100% sure that I am on the tanks target.

Early in I found it easier to pretend your a warrior and tab target switch in trash groups. If it's happening on bosses, it's definitely a tank problem, unless your running in right on his heels and not giving him time to gain initial agro, then it's your fault. "Taunt does not give a tank 1 million threat, give me time to get agro!"

Another thing I would do, is run with a healer friend and let him know that you will be off tanking. Go after the casters, keep them interrupted/grounding totem'd and you take virtually no damage while not worrying about threat at all. Their melee damage is negligible so you won't even notice it.

[Baabinator]

Pretty much like everyone else is saying...

-It is WF/WF until around higher SP (lvl 80) (you said this, but soeone tried to changfe you on it)

-You should not be able to pull threat with auto attacks, UNLESS you are hitting it before the tank.

-You said you are using normal priority as your rotation so I am assuming you are not using Fraost Shock, like someone else mentioned.

So it most likely is a tanking issue. With the current dungeon system in place a lot of people will have a tanking spec just because it's faster queues for dungeons. Doesn't really make them a tnak though.

Wrong

WF/WF is viable until you get 5/5 Elemental Fury

[ItachiZaku]

Threat will continue to be an issue from time to time. It's do to the spikyness of our damage.

From BC to now, still a problem. Not as much in IC raids, but I've been eaten a few times.

[Deleted]

Wrong

WF/WF is viable until you get 5/5 Elemental Fury

Slightly wrong WF/WF is viable until you have 5/5 Elemental Fury AND over 1000 SP unbuffed. You may recall that way back in the newly 80 raiding Naxx days raiders were starting with WF/WF and we worked out that the cut off point was roughly 1000 SP at that point it was roughly even to move to WF/FT, and above that WF/FT was clearly better.

HOWEVER things have changed since then, notably Flameshock hasted & its dot can crit as well as FT normalisation to a 4.0 speed weapon so the 1000 rule of thumb may be off now.

TBH WF/FT is probably fine almost immediately on hitting 80 if not slightly before. I really can't be bothered doing the maths to prove it though

[Baabinator]

Slightly wrong WF/WF is viable until you have 5/5 Elemental Fury AND over 1000 SP unbuffed. You may recall that way back in the newly 80 raiding Naxx days raiders were starting with WF/WF and we worked out that the cut off point was roughly 1000 SP at that point it was roughly even to move to WF/FT, and above that WF/FT was clearly better.

HOWEVER things have changed since then, notably Flameshock hasted & its dot can crit as well as FT normalisation to a 4.0 speed weapon so the 1000 rule of thumb may be off now.

TBH WF/FT is probably fine almost immediately on hitting 80 if not slightly before. I really can't be bothered doing the maths to prove it though

my bad, bro

anyways when you hit 80 and have FT on your offhand you should near enough have spellpower to put it up right away.

[Nzo]

Offtopic: Is actually WF/WF better then WF/FT early levels? i thought WF had internal CD now to avoid double trigger's. (for balance purposes) or was that removed / never added ? o.O

[wushootaki]

With Emalon in VOA 10, I could ignore a Lightning Nova with my wolves out if I wanted without worrying too much. Even on VOA 25, you hardly need to get more then a few feet out and then you can just run back and the wolves heal you. I didn't do it often unless he was almost dead because it's a pain for the healers.

Using sham rage on a lightning nova is also fun, as you won't come close to dieing. Plus, its not like we run out of mana on that fight anyway.

[Marlluxia]

Using sham rage on a lightning nova is also fun, as you won't come close to dieing. Plus, its not like we run out of mana on that fight anyway.

well, im only level 71, lol

Pretty much like everyone else is saying...

-It is WF/WF until around higher SP (lvl 80) (you said this, but soeone tried to changfe you on it)

-You should not be able to pull threat with auto attacks, UNLESS you are hitting it before the tank.

-You said you are using normal priority as your rotation so I am assuming you are not using Fraost Shock, like someone else mentioned.

So it most likely is a tanking issue. With the current dungeon system in place a lot of people will have a tanking spec just because it's faster queues for dungeons. Doesn't really make them a tnak though.

yeah, i am not using frost shock. so i guess its a tanking problem because aparently im doing my job right by what everyone is saying. ill give the tanks a bit more time to get the aggro... or say forget it and quest it up til 80 and avoid the bad tanks, lol

[Deleted]

Offtopic: Is actually WF/WF better then WF/FT early levels? i thought WF had internal CD now to avoid double trigger's. (for balance purposes) or was that removed / never added ? o.O

Yes WF has a cooldown and its 3 seconds. However as I said in previous post WF/WF is better than WF/FT prior to lvl 80 and around 1000 sp. This is largely due to not having the 5/5 Elemental Fury as was previously mentioned.

ie: even an OH WF proc gives more overall dps than FT does.

[Khross, the Maelstrom]

well looking at how well ur gemmed and chanted, that may be one reason lol

[Fornaw]

Tank issue, nothing more. At 71 tanks are going to have a slight problem in that (aside from DKs) they're balanced at 80 around having a bunch of threat talents from Ret/Arms/Resto (yes master shapeshifter and naturalist are huge threat). While leveling my Prot warrior I noticed that the low 70s was when DPS finally started doing more damage than me. Still, with proper use of your tanking skills it should be a non-issue since most DPS has utter rubbish for gear (BoAs included).

Honestly you've probably just had a string of tanks who decided, hey since I'm going to be tanking heroics at 80 for badges I might as well start now. They probably made some rookie mistakes in their gear/talents thinking they need to play like a raid tank and not realizing the fact that threat is the real challenge in a regular. Combine that with a lack of experience you're going to run into some bad ones.

Some rookie mistakes that tanks make will show in some of the following ways.

Warriors who don't cleave/use tclap+shockwave on CD. Obviously the warrior also needs to be using vigilance, on an appropriate target. At that level a warrior should probably be running with glyph of blocking as well as one of cleaving/sunder armor/devastate. Glyph of revenge, shield wall or last stand show inexperience. If it's a warrior tank pick the target he is devastating, the sunder effect is the giveway. If there is no target with sunders he's beyond help.

Paladins most common rookie mistakes involve self buff uptime failures. They need to use holy shield on cooldown and keep divine plea up. The paladin should be using seal of corruption, and when combined with Hammer of the Righteous there should be corruptions ticking on several mobs. If he's using seal of wisdom it's because he didn't spec for spiritual attunement, didn't put blessing of sanc on himself, or isn't watching his divine plea. All of those are surprisingly common mistakes, and seal of wisdom does no threat so it should never be used by a tank. Paladins should have Judgment glyphed, and probably hammer of the righteous, but that second glyph won't cause the problem you are having.

Druid tanks I'm not exactly too familiar with, but if they don't have Maul glyphed they are bad. I would argue that the Mangle glyph should also be required at that level. Pick the target he's lacerating if there is one, otherwise you want to be on his target so you can hit whatever he Mauls. If he's just spamming swipe you'll probably overaggro unless his gear is at least as good as yours.

DKs should have less trouble than other tanks because most of their threat talents are in their own tree, but even that said they need to have DnD glyphed, and probably runestrike or obliterate as well. If they are an unholy tank with a perma-ghoul they're bad. Pick the target he uses icy touch on, the spell graphic is pretty unique and that burst threat should hold the mob to him if he actually tries to tank.

On the subject of WF/FT and WF/WF, I vote we just say the rule is 5/5 Elemental Fury from now on. At that point you should be pretty close to the spellpower threshold anyway.

[ulubproness]

first off you should continue using WF/WF as it yields higher dps and will continue to do so until you hit at least 1k SP unbuffed. Also if you as an enh shammy are having threat issues and you are attacking the tanks target then it is 100% the tanks fault enh shammys have some of the lowest produced threat in the game if they can hold off of any other DPS then there is no reason to not hold form you lol