PVP weapons

[Oppose]

but aren't people just not inclined towards being good at skateboarding? are most skateboarders iin a given pool of them going to be the best in a weighted system? should those that aren't at least above average at it be penalized further, while the better skateboarder is given more ease to out-compete his lessers?

its just a flawed, anti-competitive system. if we're talking about fluff rewards here thats one thing, but a lot of you really argue for the gear gaps more than just recognition type rewards. i never really believe how the huge thread a few weeks ago where a lot of you pretended yhou were okay with fluff rewards as long as you got some rewards for succeeding was really a lot of people motivations in arguing for the gear disparities. don't believe that now either.

I didn't see that thread. Anyway, for me it's more about the "fluff" rewards of course, because a dedicated arena player will always beat a player with less knowledge in PvP. But as for today the only recognition rewards we have is the shoulders which is way to easy to obtain and the weapons(this is my oppinion). And gladiator titles + the mount. I'm not complaining but it isn't a lot either seing as the weapon and the shoulders are fairly easy to obtain for a decent player.
And especially when you have people constantly complaining about how hard it is to obtain the best PvP gear when it's exactly the same for PvP'ers when it comes to PvE. If any PvE guy says I'm wrong now I hope to God you aren't one of those "PvE is harder then PvP" guys because that would just be really stupid of you.

I hope you can see my point regarding this Spurmwhale?

[Arka90]

Kinda funny to read how people talk shit about arena just because of how awful they are at this game. Just wanting to be able to semi-AFK in BGs for best possible gear. Also, people QQing about how they cant get 1800 because of their "bad" gear, or that you need to be a no-lifer to be decent at arena.

None of these things are true (atleast not for me). Last christmas break I got my priest to 80, took me 2 weeks of playing it after that, maybe 2-3 hours per day, to get 1800 rating, and that was in half dungeon and half pvp gear (about 600 res). The guy I was playing with was even an alt of a friend of mine. He litterary hadn't done arena on it for half a year (gear was really outdated). The 1800 was still hella easy for us. We stoped playing shortly after that because we didn't have the time to play on anything but our mains (because of RL). Also, this season I've easily managed to get BiS pvp gear (missing some gear from IcC25) on my warrior, while only playing it ~10 hours per week or so (almost 1½ hour per day) the last season. Pretty much an IcC25 pug once a week (where, if you want to know, I always top dmg, even though I don't use any addons at all), and 3v3 once a week. That isn't much time used on gaming every week concidering WoW is the game I play by far the most, other than WoW I just play a few of strategy games once in a while, and I almost never waste time on watching TV. So, I still have plenty of time for studying or to go out drinking with my friends.

Seriously, stop blaming the game because you're bad at it. It's not the game's fault, it's your.

[Spurmwhale]

Obviously since they cannot do any PvE content on those servers. But since they choose to min/max with PvP/PvE gear doesn't that suggest that PvE gear provides an edge? and thus at the top levels a requirement?

i never said it didn't provide an edge, but theres a HUGE difference between an edge and required to compete...

and its just wrong you're making that argument when you've been trying to trivialize the BG vs Arena gear gaps.

meh

[wheresmywoft]

i never said it didn't provide an edge, but theres a HUGE difference between an edge and required to compete...

and its just wrong you're making that argument when you've been trying to trivialize the BG vs Arena gear gaps.

meh

Because you don't need that gear to win in BGs? If you lost to a group of 5 people in full wrathful, you would have lost if they were wearing furious. If you lost because of a single person in wrathful, your group really needs to work together.

[Wrathblade The Vanquisher]

Becuase Raiding > PvP
while raiding may take a lot more skill, pvp takes more time.

[Spurmwhale]

I didn't see that thread. Anyway, for me it's more about the "fluff" rewards of course, because a dedicated arena player will always beat a player with less knowledge in PvP. But as for today the only recognition rewards we have is the shoulders which is way to easy to obtain and the weapons(this is my oppinion). And gladiator titles + the mount. I'm not complaining but it isn't a lot either seing as the weapon and the shoulders are fairly easy to obtain for a decent player.
And especially when you have people constantly complaining about how hard it is to obtain the best PvP gear when it's exactly the same for PvP'ers when it comes to PvE. If any PvE guy says I'm wrong now I hope to God you aren't one of those "PvE is harder then PvP" guys because that would just be really stupid of you.

I hope you can see my point regarding this Spurmwhale?

well theres the titles, mounts too, which even high end raiders don't get and they tend to get everything.

i believe you you're okay with the fluff for recognition, and i don't blame you all wanting something to show for it, but i don't agree with the ones who want their gear gaps as their reward for 'succeeding' or 'working for it' in pvp environments.

[Spurmwhale]

Because you don't need that gear to win in BGs? If you lost to a group of 5 people in full wrathful, you would have lost if they were wearing furious. If you lost because of a single person in wrathful, your group really needs to work together.

and how does the same not apply to Arena? are you saying you're so skill capped and playing perfectly that your play/teamwork couldn't improve to overcome to win against even lesser gear gaps?

you can't throw out those one sided straw mans. especially in a medium where the gear gaps are a LOT smaller.

[wheresmywoft]

and how does the same not apply to Arena? are you saying you're so skill capped and playing perfectly that your play/teamwork couldn't improve to overcome to win against even lesser gear gaps?

you can't throw out those one sided straw mans. especially in a medium where the gear gaps are a LOT smaller.

Between 2200 and 2800 the difference is skill, between 2800 and 3000 the difference is PvE gear.

Once you're looking and people past the 2800 range, almost all players are comparable to each other in skill.

[juzalol]

Its because Blizzard believed Arena is the only source of proper PvP in the game, which in fact is a load of Bull$hit.

Yes, back in BC you could purchase weapons with honor and that was a good thing, but they really screwed up this time around in Wrath by making them obtainable by LOLarena.

Battlegrounds/World PvP > LOLArena.

Words cannot describe how terrible player you are. Most likely even worse than my english.

[Oppose]

well theres the titles, mounts too, which even high end raiders don't get and they tend to get everything.

i believe you you're okay with the fluff for recognition, and i don't blame you all wanting something to show for it, but i don't agree with the ones who want their gear gaps as their reward for 'succeeding' or 'working for it' in pvp environments.

I can understand that, thanks for a nice discussion

[brandnizzle]

I think people on both sides of the fence need to understand the others' argument - both have valid opinions imo. I've never had problems having access to 2200 weapons and shoulders btw, so it's not like I'm biased to argue against those who can't get weapons.

The hardcore arena players dislike the idea of the gear not having rating requirements because it's a way to distinguish yourself. It's nice to have a 2k shoulders and a 2200 weapon/gladiator tabard -- people are playing this game to have fun but a lot like the idea of having unique gear with cool designs. So when there's a threat to lose the uniqueness of those items there will be discontent from the arena'ers.

At the same time, there is a severe disadvantage to this system. There comes a point where gear does limit your functionality no matter how good your gear is. Veex, one of the world's top warlocks/warriors (he won the Blizzcon 2009 tournament -- not an invitational -- and had the original TSG) said on one of his blogs how surprised he was, coming back to the game after playing AION for a bit, how much just one tier of gear made it so much harder to compete, and how a lot of players at his gear level really weren't that bad. They just didn't have gear.

In the end, I think Blizzard's development direction for Cataclysm is correct -- no rating on items except for T2 weapons I believe, someone else posted the blue quote earlier. That way it gives everyone a chance to be ROUGHLY on par with each other through access to most of the same stuff. It gives a slight reward to players who are exceptionally skilled, but gives other skilled players a chance to fight mostly toe-to-toe.

TLR, Cata's direction will solve gear inequity and create a better pvp environment so that there is high competition for everyone but at least a chance for lesser-geared players to have access to gear. Honestly I don't care much for beating into people with blues except for the occasional lolz -- nothing feels better than outplaying someone with equal/better gear for a win.

I think both sides have valid opinions though, I can see where both are coming from.

[Relictus]

Becuase Raiding > PvP
while raiding may take a lot more skill, pvp takes more time.

This guy knows what's up.

[Shawaam]

To be honest, getting honor is easy as hell. On the other hand, getting ilvl 232 weapons are easy as hell too, so I see no reason for those not to be purchasable with honour

[Myrsky]

I prefer PvE weapons over PvP weapons anyway. Although PvP might have Resilience on them, PvE weapons have a way higher damage ratio.

[cypherthesilent]

Woot cataclysm i cant wait for a new BG